Here is how traditonal media gets their rate increase..."Mr. Dealer but I have value added products that go with this awesome drive time spot I am charging you out the A$$ for...but WAIT! If I really like you I will park an obscene van with a huge sign and oh hold on.....our 2PM personality FOR FREE!!!!" And one last thing...MR. Dealer, for a low low price I will give you 500 15 sec spots (did I forget to mention it's between 1AM-5AM) so your $800 30 second drive time spot is worth it! Sorry did I just turn your Franchise into a BHPH dealer? The "audience" is so great at that time. TRUST ME they do this to dealers all of the time. Value Add what???? Online..dealer websites...SEM/SEO/Cars, Autotrader...anything online is better than that. Your lot traffic will respond with what you put into that laptop thing. I always notice that no one really knows how to respond to traditional media posts. IM's learn this so you can have that money to spend where it sells more cars putting $$$$ in your pocket!!!

Joe, thanks for your thoughts and for your honest opinions. Here is something you wont from other vendors -- please give us the opportunity to make things right with respect to untimely rate increases and other mistakes of the past.

In fact, we as the reps stepped up and fought for No rate increases until 2010 (and no that wont mean a double increase in 2010) and our company felt that was a great step toward the healing process. We understand the mistakes and we're taking steps to rectify it.

Here's some food for thought -- until this year every advertising medium has had an annual process of increasing rates and it's not unique to ATC. It's the way advertising works but the question is [what are we getting for the increase?]

ATC (and internet in general) is the only media that can confidently say that we've increased our reach and exposure by double digits year after year and that value is a win for our dealers.

Meanwhile other media were still asking for more money without the justified increase in exposure and that's bad business. In fact, everyone else was showing a decrease in those ever important metrics that determine value/rates in the advertising world.

I have a dealer that really gives me a hard time when comparing us with other media -- I asked him to invite all his advertising reps to a meeting and line us up -- and then make each of us give #'s on exposure and basically justify increases in spend and any other value points that we felt were important.

I'm not saying that ATC is the end all -- but internet in general (CARS.com and other 3rd party sites) were coming out on top of that meeting.

The result, the dealer was spending somewhere around 75% of his budget with (high cost, mass reach, untargeted traditional media)even in the face of current industry facts that show that somewhere north of 75% of consumers either begin their search online or stop their at one point of their sourcing process! It was very difficult pill to swallow but for him to continue to ignore the disparity in spend between the traditional vs. digital (where the consumers were really fishing) would have been irresponsible of him as the DP.

It was never a matter of asking dealers for more money -- but more so to ask them for a fair share of their current spend based on performance (reallocation)...

hahaha... ya gotta love those "I ain't comein' back here no more" posts.

I see:
-Sellers defending value
-Ad Buyers upset about ROI

This is exactly how dealers feel about the Yellow Pages and NewsPrint. If you look into the DR archives, you'll see a anti-Yellow Pages rant in there.

BUT, I'll say something that no other "ad buyer" will admit here.

We've abandonded YellPages and NewsPrint. We can't abandon the AT platform. So what's the bitch? You can summarize the DR rant in one sentence "We buyers are upset about the 600% increase in 5 years."

Its so simple, we're locked in a love-hate stalemate.

Joe

David I understand what you're saying and it is a positive message and often those who fail or fall short usually follow with an automatic build-in excuse list. NEWS FLASH, The auto industry is tough, it's been tough from the beginning and will be tough the rest of our lives. Life is certainly easier, for those of us who work in this industry, if we can continue to point to our vendors as the reason for our failures. This is the first and most likely the last post to this site for me; I've been coming here about twice a month for the last year plus. The absolute best thing about it is that every time I log on and read all the anti-atc postings, my faith is renewed. So I want to thank all of you built-in excuse makers. I hope you continue to blame at.com for all of your failure. Continue to discount to sell your cars. Continue to find more important things to do than spend time with your autotrader or cars.com reps; i recommend blowing up more balloons because we all know that will sell us more cars...HEY! if that doesn't work try painting the windows of the dealership, or maybe, just maybe a nice GORILLA blowup out front; all can't miss options. My point, if not obvious enough, if you continue to blame anyone for anything you have control of,....

Thanks Alex,

My intentions were to engage you on a positive note and to not discourage the positive message in this post. I think I failed in that attempt

Anyway, I appreciate your input and will work harder within my circle of control to change a perception that I believe reflects a time when we were getting our act together at ATC.

I ask my dealers to hold me to the same level of accountability that they do for the other partner vendors. When we are on a level playing field -- it is clear to my dealers and myself that we are providing a great service.

I spend countless hours with my dealers on a weakly basis, creating specials, helping with pictures and other merchandising, reaching beyond what another vendor would do to earn their respect and to keep their business. It's paying off and it feels great and I'm absolutely excited to work with ATC given the effectiveness of our service. We're putting our dealers in front of targeted audience (whom are proactively looking for a vehicle in your market) and doing it at a fraction of the cost of what they are spending on Traditional Media. This is the bottom line for our DP's or GM's.

Can't we all just get along??? LOL!!! God I love passion!!!!

Hey, guys! I am trying to run a love fest here. This is why I don't come out from under my rock that often. Can I offer the two of you some Kool-Aid?

If Autotrader is just paying things lip service, then I'll be right back to what I've been saying for the past 5 years. There was actually a time when I liked ATC.

SJBconsult - If you were in my marketplace, as a customer of ours, and we treated you unfairly you'd go somewhere else right? That's all the protest you would need to make - right? If I continued to call you and show up at your front door unannounced every couple of weeks what would you do to get rid of me? What if you even tried my services multiple times after we split ways years ago but still found the whole thing to be the same old dog and pony show? You'd leave again, and smack yourself for giving me another shot because you knew better. But I keep coming back - I keep calling, emailing, sneaking behind your back to talk to other people in your family, and still just dropping by unannounced.

So I ask again - how would you get rid of me? Call the cops? Get a restraining order? Maybe you're a forgiving person and would like to lend some criticism to help me see the follies of my ways. Maybe you have been telling exactly what I need to do to earn your business back every time I contact you. Maybe you know a day will come where I will get my act together in a way that makes you happy again. Maybe you're hoping one of your respected colleagues will come back from a trip with my company excited to hear all those things you've wanted to see from me are being committed to. Now you're just going to wait to see if they really happen.

Hopefully, once you've publicly come out to say something positive about my company someone from my organization doesn't come out to take a short stab at you.

If you think Dealer Refresh has only become a place where vendors are bashed, have you ever wondered why one in particular takes the vast majority of it? Might be a reason for that...

Alex, it's good to see a touch of positive feedback from you. Many of us appreciate the work you do but it's often weighted with a negative spin that may or may not be rational or true -- especially since guys like me are on the front lines and know that the comments are off base (at least in my neck of the woods) so these little notes of optimism from you are great.

We need to see more objective views on the various issues that dealers are facing with respect to internet and 3rd party sites and although I enjoy most of the content on this blog -- it seems to have become a forum for bashing vendors.

Every company has areas to improve and grow in -- I guarantee I can find a handful of customers that were not happy with your dealership for one reason or another. Does that mean we should bash your dealership and create a thread dedicated to reduce your value? No - I don't think that would be the best way to convey constructive criticism.

David, thanks for your thoughts on the annual conference in Vegas -- it was a great time and as a rep for ATC I'm encouraged by the changes and the validation that the approach to building relationships and servicing our customers is the right direction. This happens to be an approach and way of doing business that many of us were already in tune with but the fact that the company is alligning their objectives to support this move.

On another note -- the presentation you did was very interesting -- you've given us some steps and ideas to bring to our dealers that when the time is right -- and once they can master the basic levels of merchandising -- we'll be able to consult on that next level of digital marketing that can help advance their objectives online. Thanks for your contribution and I love you what you guys are doing at MileOne.

I appreciate the nice comments about the post. It was easy to write because I really felt like they are doing the right things for us, their customers. I met some really great people who are just as passionate about their job as many of us are. We all (ya'ah, as they say in Atlanta, GA) need to remember that the chief at the top of the mountain usually takes all of the arrows. Just ask my counterparts at AutoNation, Asbury, and Sonic. I bet they would agree.

As far as the Kool-Aid comment.... If Kool-Aid equals Vodka and Red Bull...than yes Joe, I was drinking the Kool-Aid!

I have been with ATC for six years, I have been through & part of those infamous blitz's & adding the dealers..."what have you done for me today". As an advertising consultant (& in mgmnt for approx a year) I will say that not only did I appreciate your article, I very much appreciate the direction we are headed. Being in sales all my life I realize this is all built on relationships, & going back to the "core" values that make us successful. Not only do I believe we'll stay the path on great customer service...I KNOW we will! (by the way, I REALLY enjoyed yor class!)

I think part of the challenge is that the more dealers that are on Autotrader the more diluted the value becomes but the higher they raise their prices. This inverse relationship provides a huge dilema for ATC and on the dealer side. If someone does a search for a 2007 Honda in your area and there are 1000 in the search results, what are the chances of you you receiving that lead? Yeah, I know you gotta "makes sure you have pictures and descriptions, and blah blah" I'm sure most on DR are already doing the basics. Then you pay for "premium listings" or "spotlights" or these other "added value" features. I just shake my head because it's a tough cake to bake. Once again, I'm always satisfied with the reps but in this market sometimes that's just not enough.

Nice post David. If ATC sticks by the things they said during that Vegas meeting, then they are on the right track! I would like to become an ATC fan again.

i-autoknow,

That was really well written, very creative! Be sure to stop around more often!

Joe
p.s. HAS ANYONE's USED CAR BIZ JUMPED WAY UP THIS MONTH?

bought my first AT contract in 2000 for $199 . Heck it was free before then , Manheim would post my cars right after I bought them at the sale . I have always sold cars from online ads . Has the value deminished since my free listings ? Depends how you look at it . If you look at from my cost ......free in 2000 to $2500.00 today in 2009 ....well yes, it's more money , but as I look at from my ability to sell more cars to more people and getting my prospects the best information to help them make the best decision for them .....well , yes I make less per unit , to be competative , howewever...... when ATC started in 2000 they had less than 200k cars online and less than 500k visits per month . They now have 3.5 million cars listed and 12mill. visits per month !!! Honestly , I hope other dealers will drop ATC , thats more looks on MY cars . I can't find any other media who will bring me more trackable , qualified prospects to my inventory . Last time we surveyed our sold clients , 78 % used the internet to find their car . I agree ATC grew very fast and became arrogant with the "you need us attitude" . Bottom line .....they/ATC built the largest pond , stocked it with the most fish/(my inventory) and has attracked the most fishermen/(on-line shoppers) . If I was not on-line , I would be out of business today .

OFH newspaper isn't even a competitor to us anymore. great you have the knowledge about print but we do compete against radio and TV as well. glad our team all came from traditional media. we help dealers rewrite their schedules all the time. same exposure, lower spend and WE get the $$$$ thanks for the business dealers! the blessing is, we don't get complaints from our dealers and haven't in over 2 years. guess this market hired the right people with the right relationships. our customers even run our meetings. nice to see ATC did it so sales reps can here good and bad.

IMO, the AT rant here is all about value. Sure we get leads. WHEN WE DISCOUNT! No discount, NO LEADS.

Many of the DR crew here were around when AT was just a baby. Rates were cheap and dealer competition was sparse. The result was lotsa leads for little money. As a bonus, AT had little competition, The Early adopters were rewarded.

AT deserved to raise its rates. It's only mis-step is it used NewsPrint as the "gold standard". AT felt that dealers were going to spend $3-400 PVR,so why not move most of it to AT?

Profit PVR is NOT what it was in the good 'ol newsprint days. AT and the internet have decimated the old school dealer model and whyinhell use old school ad models to justify AT's value? It just pisses me off when I hear this pitch.

The ENTIRE Newsprint industry is crawling into the fetal position and sucking their thumb. AT is a web site, it has none of the legacy costs that newsprint has. AT can cut rates and survive. Newsprint... DOA.

oLd FaT & haPPy

I am glad to see this new approach from ATC. Dealers in my market are truly starting to notice the changes and appreciate them again. I can’t tell you how many conversations I have had with dealers saying to me “I’m considering cutting out Autotrader.” I always advise my dealer partners against this. I ask them instead to hold all of their providers to a higher standard and to align their ad spend with what is actually generating the most traffic. Their feedback is usually along the lines of “I do understand that AT works but their service and rates are terrible” We all know that for years Dealers have relied on traditional media at a much higher cost and very little in the way of metrics. The difference was the presence of the reps. Traditional media reps are not spread as thin and understand that there is a direct correlation between perceived service and the number of interactions with the dealer. In 2009 Cars and ATC will be focusing on building stronger relationships within the dealership and becoming true partners to their dealers. Those of you that have seen the latest Synovate study understand that online efforts deliver four times more traffic through your front doors than traditional media.

Quite often one question that seems to surface is “Who’s better ATC or Cars?” I like to answer this question by asking “Why wouldn’t you want both?” If they both have close to a $200 million dollar advertising campaign(designed to drive traffic to your inventory), both are recognized as industry leaders, both provide quality reps and service, both have an acceptable ROI, and both deliver different in market car buyers. I ask again “Why wouldn’t you want the advantages of having both?” If you were selling an online department store product would you only want traffic from Wal-mart.com or would you also like the customer base from Target.com? Bravo to ATC for wanting to provide their dealer partners with a higher level of service! If you are a truly consultative sales rep then you understand that your dealer’s online success with both Cars.com and Autotrader.com is in your best interest. Let’s work together in 2009 to provide our mutual dealer partners with the level of service the DESERVE and assist them in transitioning their dollars from traditional media to more effective online solutions.

David,

This was an amazing post. You really a true humble and professional with class. I like the respect that you show and your willingness to give something a chance.

Thanks for spreading the positive message David. I had the pleasuure of meeting you in Vegas and I have to say that the best part of our meeting this year was having the input from the dealers. Chip even gave you guys the opportunity to lay it on the line and point out the problems with ATC and it's reps, but you all took the highroad. Thanks again for your contributions to our training and I hope the company brings more dealers next year, maybe even some that aren't as successful with their advertising on ATC....now that would be something. A couple of nay sayers in a room with 1000 ATC sales reps. They could put that on TV.

Very interesting post. I think that all of us on the vendor partner side have a common goal this year. Projections are that it is going to be a rocky ride for the industry and those of us that are truly partners need to step up to the plate and help our dealers any way that we can. I know that readers of DR know the importance of online marketing in '09, but not all ISMs and GMs read DR. We feel the burden to educate on changing consumer habits and believe that our ability to help our dealers in this regard may be the difference between some of our dealers writing paychecks or resumes.

Bob, what dealership do you work for exactly? Pardon my skepticism, but on the heels of such a favorable post for autotrader.com, these jabs seem a little, opportunistic. I'm sure your cars.com rep would be happy to talk to you about monthly searches on our partnership sites as well as our main site and engagement metrics which are really more important then viewers per month. Here is my personal email address if you want to take it offline. joeryan77@gmail.com

In Response to Andrew Wright

Cars.com? Come on man when is the last time they told you they were not going to raise the rates? 14 million viewers per month vs 8 or 9 million. I am dealer that users both and I like what I see with ATC.

Good to hear that the winds of change are blowing at Autotrader but, frankly, I'll believe it when I see it. For years they have taken advantage of dealers and many of us have been left jaded. I have a great relationship with cars.com. I know many that feel good about their relationship with Cars.com. They are very supportive and their rates are reasonable.

With that said, its encouraging to hear that the new leadership is desirous for change.