Latest activity

Aug 12, 2008

Mike,
Had a rep for ReachLocal in my office today trying to sell me (someone did try to warn him)

Nothing he said to me today was very surprising except when he told me that TCD operates on their platform.

Hadn't heard this before and was curious as to your response.

To answer Albert, while there aren't that many of us in the automotive industry that do what I do, no software or system can replace the experience and the ability to operate on a "hunch" based on experience and most of all, nothing of that sort can take a risk or chance. Its impossible for the inhuman to act human in that way.

When one of those systems tells me it's adjusting my budget based on a commitment I'll make next week or because my buyer went a little overboard at the auction, I'll stand up and listen.

mikedececco · Aug 12, 2008

Hey guys:

All great stuff! This is why these sites are so fantastic because we can all learn all the time from eachother.

Mike, thanks for the insight you bring to the table. We all appreciate it.

To speak to this point..."I can tell you with a high level of confidence that a manually managed program simply cannot compete with these sophisticated systems. The number of calculations and adjustments that they are capable of making in a day are inconceivable for a manually operated platform to undertake. "

The beauty about this statement is it's truth. That's why I must point out that TCD is surely a solution to that exact problem. It is a super simple, easy to use inteface for the novice internet user, that allows them to quickly and easily control the direction of exactly the complex algorythyms an calculations you speak of.

That's the beauty and simplicity of the interface which Google has been raving about during our many meetings in VT.

As always, it's a pleasure to be a part of the information sharing here.

Mike DeCecco

Aug 12, 2008

I thought Hal 9000 was burned up by the sun?
all kidding aside wouldn't you need a dealer group such as carmax to make something like that work? I could see where someone like amazon would need to buy many different keywords since they seem to stock the world but many of us only have a franchise or two.
Maybe I am wrong?

Aug 12, 2008

Mike, I know of at least 7 to 8 similar platforms/systems, but then that's my job. None of them are exactly the same, all are very similar.

I do not feel comfortable discussing any of this in detail as that is my job and what the company where I work gets paid to do.

And, no I'm not looking for any business out of this. I'm an employee and it is not my job to sell. I was involved quite extensively with consulting work in the auto industry recently, found this site (Jeff does a great job with it), and I continue to monitor it even though I do not have any projects in the industry at this moment (you never now what will come next week). I've become fascinated with the Auto Retail space as it is behind many other industries with regard to the Digital age and marketing approaches/applications.

I'm watching to see how things develop and what path the industry takes. I'm very curious to see what evolves next. This site seems to be a great indicator of the feel of those on the edge of change in the retail auto space and that is why I come here to read and ocassionally post.

Aug 12, 2008

Alex,

To me the Stages of Search would more accurately be described as:

Stage 1 - Self managed through the engine back-end tools
Stage 2- Managed campaigns by 3rd party specialists
Stage 3- Software systems that allowed more sophisticated campaign management (a substage of this would be 3rd parties utilizing these tools to manage campaigns)
Stage 4 - Auto driven systems that managed a set of keywords based on pre-determined performance rules - they call these rule-based systems
Stage 5 - Algorythmically run systems that take a set of keywords and automatically optimize, evaluate, re-bid, and re-adjust constantly, utilzing an artifical intelligence system and fractional factorial analysis. This is where we are at today, and where all the big money is playing. These systems are capable of awesome performances, but do have some kinks. These systems are why there are some on-line retail sites realizing over 1000% Return on Ad Spend! Yes, I have personally seen the results.

So I originally miss-spoke (I apologize for that) when I said we are at Stage 4, we are actually at Stage 5.

Reach Local is actually a pre-runner system of a full Stage 5 system, but according to the experts that I have spoken with, it is, in their words - primitive compared to today's modern systems and their capabilities. And, no, I'm not making any of this up. I've looked at ReachLocals system and feel the bigger issue with their program (I'm not totally sold on it being all that primitive) is not necessarily the system, but their business model of how they focus their campaigns.

I can tell you with a high level of confidence that a manually managed program simply cannot compete with these sophisticated systems. The number of calculations and adjustments that they are capable of making in a day are inconceivable for a manually operated platform to undertake.

Alex, that is where Paid Search is today.

mikedececco · Aug 12, 2008

Albert:

Would love to hear about what you're talking about including what business what you speak of fits into and the application name etc.

Thanks for the post

Aug 11, 2008

Albert - care to explain a little more. Please define stage 4 for us.

Aug 11, 2008

Trouble is that SEM is already in Stage 4, it's just that there is hardly anyone in the auto industry that knows it yet.

The other blog topic poster who suggested that you need to step outside this industry to see what is really goin on is so true. The model that TCD is going after has been done for years in other segments.

Aug 6, 2008

Got that one Brian. Funny stuff.

Aug 6, 2008

I had to check my GPS I thought I was in New Orleans for a second

great post and very informative guys!

mikedececco · Aug 6, 2008

Ha! Nice one Richard...as you're well aware....sometimes it's hard not to fall into "sales mode" when you're so excited about, and believe so strongly in your product.

This has been a great string and I think people learned a great deal.

Thanks to all!

Aug 6, 2008

Mike,

The post was already a pretty good sales pitch. I don't have a problem with it in the least bit and kudos to Dealer.com for the product but I find your comment a little humerous. Tell it like it is, Mike, tell it like it is!

mikedececco · Aug 5, 2008

Joe:

TCD does both the things you mentioned in your earlier post and much more. In the interest of the spirit of this site, and not to turn this into too much of a sales pitch, let's take this discussion offine. My e-mail is miked@dealer.com

Thanks!

mikedececco · Aug 5, 2008

Tom: Great points in your post. If you want to do PPC yourself and be able to accurately measure your results, you should check out TCD.

I know.... shameless product pitch... Sorry Jeff. ha!

Aug 4, 2008

Pay out, pay out, pay out. It's like changing your oil every 3,000 miles because Castrol told you to.

Aug 3, 2008

Paul,
Toss me an email or a phone call when time allows. I need to get out of the SEM Stage1 dungeon.

thnx,
Joe

Paul Rushing · Aug 2, 2008

@Joe

There are plenty of tools out there that will let you do that without having to pay a monthly fee for them. I have one that I use for affiliate marketing that will even let me spy on my competition and help me develop a keyword list based on several recommendation tools and help you with keyword phrases (longtail) cheap clicks!!

Aug 2, 2008

I am in SEM early phase 1. Doing SEM is easy, doing SEM right is NOT EASY. I have so many irons in the fire I can't find the time to get a handle on it all, so, paying for a tool makes sense to me. Here are a few of my problems.

We sell just about every vehicle under the sun. I need keyword help. Does the dealer.com TCD supply a keyword database AND a phrase database to work with?

Does TCD help me optimize the ad copy with multiple ads for the same keywords (like GOOG does now?).

Sleepless in SEMville,
Joe

tomwhitejr · Aug 1, 2008

I should probably just write my own blog post about this subject, but here are my "two cents."

First some caveats:
1. I don't work for a small highline store.
2. I don't have a bunch of time on my hands.
3. I firmly believe in SEM as a means of growing traffic and, more importantly, sales.
4. I am NOT a programmer.

Here is the problem with SEM providers as I see them:
1. Everything I do with advertising revolves around dominating my marketplace. I rarely use print or other, what I consider to be, outdated marketing methods. SEM allows me to target specific keywords, competitors, et al. This means that if I get hot and bothered about a specific keyword, I will pay whatever it takes to own the position (read as 1 through 3). I really don't care what the cost per click is as long as my cost per sale is in line.

I don't have to worry about keeping several other dealerships in my market area happy. Maybe I am compulsive, but I want my piece of the pie and everyone else's as well. How does a firm market via CPC to dealerships in the same DMA ethically? It's impossible if you think about it. While they can "promise" certain search results for certain phrases, they can't do it for all the relevent keywords or phrases. In a nutshell, I find it to be a complicit conflict of interest.

The only way to make SEM work is to do it yourself. It's really not that hard. There is so much available information over the Internet regarding this subject that you can get up to speed relatively quickly. I did...

2. Just because you can pay for clicks and rank in searches doesn't mean squat. I could pay to get your website at the top of the paid searches overnight and, as a matter of fact, anyone can. The challenge becomes what does the consumer do when they click on your ad? If your site sucks, you WILL NOT convert the click to anything more than an expense. No one wants to talk about setting up landing pages, micro-sites, blogs, etc. The SEM expert companies I have talked to have spent 5 minutes talking about the site design of the website they are advertising and hours on how they can get me ranked high. It's madness. If your site sucks, no amount of SEM is going to get you the results you want, PERIOD!

My advice is to spend the time it takes to truly learn how the SEM business works. You might find a company that will provide you with everything that you are looking for at a price that makes sense. Don't fall for false promises and the "black magic" that many sell. This isn't rocket science. You can learn how to do this yourself and really dominate. If nothing else, you need to know what is real and what is snake oil.

As always, just my two cents.

Tom

mikedececco · Aug 1, 2008

Thanks for the stunning article Alex. You're right, we are the first to pioneer this type of ad buying in force. It really is a revolution in paid advertising and we thank you for the kind words.

To billy's point: "Will address Total Control first. IMO, there is no software that can accurately predict what you'll receive. To define this, accurately means a quality click addressing a specific search. All any software can predict is predetermined by the information search engines like Google supply them. "

This statement isn't entirely true although I can see your point and understand where you would get that information. Most companies do rely on what Google tells them a campaign will expect. We're different. We're using data that is based on the thousands of campaigns we have run for our clients and based on actual results of paid searches coupled with our websites. It's based on years of real world actual usage cases not on what Google tells us we should expect. Very different.

Also, this is a great place to point out that as far as I know we're the only company in the space that actually has Google's teams visiting us up in VT on a regular basis because they feel our technology platform is so advanced. It's pretty exciting to be part of something that!

Thanks again for the great post Alex and your comments billy.

Search is still a hot topic and with dealers continuing to spend the vast majority of ad dollars in media that is statistically proven to be ineffective, its impact will only continue to grow!

Thanks,

Mike DeCecco

Aug 1, 2008

It's funny you used 2 companies I've researched recently. I certainly have my opinions of both.

Will address Total Control first. IMO, there is no software that can accurately predict what you'll receive. To define this, accurately means a quality click addressing a specific search. All any software can predict is predetermined by the information search engines like Google supply them. I find that Google's predictive info is wrong on a daily basis. Small changes within a PPC campaign can skew results drastically. Increasing or decreasing the radius around your store, the pocket areas you target, keyword/phrase misspellings, your competitors' actions are all aspects of human interaction that make predictive measuring impossible to be accurate.

As for ReachLocal, I'm all for my competitors using them for their SEM. The shotgun approach to Search Engine Marketing is much like the radio, TV and newspaper blitzes of yesteryear. It's a great way to spend a ton of money for very little ROI. The Ford store next door should do very well being at the top of the sponsor results in Google for the term "Honda Accord". The Kia store down the road will do great coming up 3rd in sponsor results for Kia Phoenix. We're in Atlanta.

Basically, if you can't find a company that can give you specific, quality targetted results in your DMA, hire someone in-house that can. Or, do like another store down the street and throw 50K a month at it.

Something has to stick.

Alex Snyder · Aug 1, 2008

Search Engine Marketing has been around since the early 2000s and has quickly become a billion dollar advertising system for eCommerce. It is one of the most measurable and cost-effective advertising medias available. On the dealership side of the automotive world, Search Engine Marketing is still in its infancy. Many dealers think it is some sort of fad and I've heard over 50% of the dealerships in America do not engage in any kind of Pay-Per-Click advertising model. Those guys probably aren't on Dealer Refresh, so let's forget about them for a minute.

If you've been involved in paid search for a while you are probably familiar with the different stages it has evolved from. Originally, there were no paid search vendors. You had to go directly to the source (Google, Yahoo, etc), create your own account, and build your own campaigns. Stage 1 was very time consuming and reserved only for the most advanced eCommerce individuals....or those guys who worked at small highline stores with nothing but time on their hands <cough><ahemm>some people</excuse me>

Companies like Reach Local pioneered the second stage of handling your entire campaign on your behalf. You could just send them a check and wait for the monthly reports with the results. This is the stage we're
mostly in right now. In this second stage, SEM has evolved a little further by allowing some campaign customization through a SEM vendor. Customization is basically how you want your campaign to go -
placement, verbiage, time and some vendors are even able to forecast an outcome for you. The downsides to that model are having to pay a large cut (typically one you really don't know despite what a vendor might tell you - there is no way to really check this) and you have to wait for a report.

We are now heading into stage 3 of automotive SEM where it is a mixture of the first and second stages. You have a vendor who provides the working environment, but you control the campaign from soup to nuts.
Dealer.com's Total Control Dominator (TCD) is the first product like this that I have seen. It has predictive measuring that will show you how much to invest on a particular campaign based on nationwide
performance for SEM campaigns targeting the same brands and locations. For example: you want to buy the main keyword of "Honda" with variations on how it is used by a consumer in a search phrase ("Honda Civic", "Honda Accord", "Used Honda") and target a 10 mile radius around your dealership, TCD will show you that you're going to need to spend $500 to get 1,000 clicks and x number of leads. Over time, you can adjust your campaign to target and position the keywords that are getting you a more impressions and higher conversions. This is nothing new, but it shows you instantly - without you having to contact a rep
at your SEM vendor's HQ. Next to what a click costs is what a lead conversion will cost. This is where the dynamic changes. Instead of buying paid search engine placement by the click, you are looking at what it costs as a conversion once they're on your website. This is where stage 3 is defined and becomes revolutionary!

DigitalRalph.com · Aug 2, 2008

Jeff,

Well, at the very least there was one positive outcome... We changed the member profile set up and email display policies at www.AutomotiveDigitalMarketing.com so that now members have the option to display an email address, or not, and the one they display can be different than the one system admins, alerts and announcements are sent to.

I am uneasy about one thing related to you taking down your entire post. There was a lot of very good, well thought out and well written comments that were added onto it, and being that we are in America, and the whole freedom of speech thing and all, well I sincerely hope that you delted what you did for the right reasons.

I have never edited, deleted or suppressed any comments on the ADM site, except for my own, and I will be the first to admit that my own content that i have removed was taken down due to political pressure from companies such as Google and GM. I am not proud of it, but sometimes we all need to engage in self-preservation acts.

Hopefully, you have not been forced into the same corner I have personally visited and have also been forced to say that you are doing this at your own free will... Either way, i am fully supportive and appreciate the time, energy and efforts you put into this blog.

Paul Rushing · Aug 1, 2008

Thanks Jeff for doing what you do. I too have made some edits and realized where to draw some lines in the sand.

It has been a learning experience for me as well and helped me revisit the purpose of creating my blog in the first place.

Thanks for you support, keep up the good work.

Jul 31, 2008

Jeff

Thanks for highlighting the issue and for the sensitivity shown to all the parties involved and commenting on the email marketing activities.

When you and your readers focus on the challenges we face everyday, it creates incredible value for every sales professional in the industry. We continually need to conduct ourselves in a professional manner and work hard to exceed expectations.

Again thanks for taking the high road on this issue.

Latest activity

Latest activity

Filter