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Why We Said No to Yelp Ads Twice: In Response to Yelp's Dylan Swift

Can I triple like this? Great job Aaron, and spot-on, I could not have written this up better (so I look to reference it later in my reviews..). Our dealerships are located in OH, KY and IN, and Yelp does not play a major role in our market either like it does on the coasts. I find it ironic that Yelp is looking to charge us exorbitant prices to promote ourselves on their platform, while on the other hand, Yelp promotes negative feedback about the businesses on their site (that is MY perspective on their review filters, where negative reviews stay there forever, while positive reviews struggle to publish and then stay there... maybe that is why the site was titled "Yelp"...

Why We Said No to Yelp Ads Twice: In Response to Yelp's Dylan Swift

Glenn Jimerson Thanks for the comment. I think you're being awfully nice when you describe it as "not exactly ideal." There are separate categories for dealerships, auto repair, and parts & supplies, to name a few, but they're missing is a way to prioritize the categories. I'd bet this is intentional.
The ad rep insisted that there were enough impressions (500/month) to offer me, and she said that she wouldn't be reaching out to us unless there were. So in this case, it's more of an issue of quality of impressions than amount. 
No matter where the market might be, I maintain that Yelp is misleading in the way they present their data, which raises the question: Why this is necessary (along with the long term commitment) if there is in fact so much value? Even Foursquare offers pay-per-action ad solutions now. Why is Yelp so painfully behind?

Why We Said No to Yelp Ads Twice: In Response to Yelp's Dylan Swift

Glenn Jimerson Thanks for the comment. I think you're being awfully nice when you describe it as "not exactly ideal." There are separate categories for dealerships, auto repair, and parts & supplies, to name a few, but they're missing is a way to prioritize the categories. I'd bet this is intentional.
The ad rep insisted that there were enough impressions (500/month) to offer me, and she said that she wouldn't be reaching out to us unless there were. So in this case, it's more of an issue of quality of impressions than amount. 
No matter where the market might be, I maintain that Yelp is misleading in the way they present their data, which raises the question: Why this is necessary (along with the long term commitment) if there is in fact so much value? Even Foursquare offers pay-per-action ad solutions now. Why is Yelp so painfully behind?

Why We Said No to Yelp Ads Twice: In Response to Yelp's Dylan Swift

There are markets where Yelp ads makes sense.  For smaller markets like yours, probably not.  At my last job I was involved in evaluating the effectiveness of Yelp ads for auto dealers.  I saw a clear distinction between big and small markets.  The smaller markets just couldn't get enough impressions.  Also,  the long term commitments bothered me.  At least with Google or FB ads you can bail at any time if the ROI isn't there.

One thing to keep in mind is that they lump sales and service business into the broad "automotive" category.   That means people looking for an oil change are often seeing your ad for new car sales.  That's not exactly ideal.  Granted, back in January I requested those be split.  It's possible they have done that by now.
Again,  Yelp ads can bring you some really good traffic low in the funnel, you just have to be in a market where it makes sense.

Why We Said No to Yelp Ads Twice: In Response to Yelp's Dylan Swift

 

Dylan Swift, Yelp's Director of National Marketing, spoke this morning at the Driving Sales Executive Summit to a predictably tepid audience. The presentation included a lot of the same old statistics we've seen about the rise of mobile trends, and then abruptly ended.

Charlie Vogelheim, looking dashing in his velvet tuxedo jacket, asked a few questions and then invited the audience to submit questions on pieces of paper for Mr. Swift to answer. My question was the last one read, but due to time constraints, Charlie had to paraphrase, and Mr. Swift didn't address any of the points satisfactorily. So, I'll try here on DealerRefresh.

I'll begin with a story...

A few weeks back, a friendly young woman called from Yelp’s advertising department to check in with us. I’d spoken with another rep last year about possibly partnering with them, but ultimately we decided against it, and this rep wanted to know if we’d give it another look.

I reminded her that I’d sat through the presentation once before and asked if enough had changed in the last year to make it worth sitting through again. She assured me that Yelp makes significant updates almost weekly, so I agreed.

Spoiler alert--I said no. Again. Not because it wasn’t the right time, the right “fit,” or that I was a few dollars short of seeing the full value of the package, but because there was just so much wrong with the presentation, I decided to write this review.

It’s important to note that I’m writing this article from the perspective of one in Wichita, Kansas, where Yelp just hasn’t taken hold like it has in larger cities. Out of all the years that Suzuki of Wichita was around, we managed to collect a whopping 2 reviews on the main page and 5 reviews that were trapped by the infamous Yelp filter. Sure, some restaurants, bars, and retail stores have collected reviews numbering in the double digits (such as this restaurant that briefly rose to notoriety for serving lion meat) but overall, Wichitans just don’t Yelp that much.

I’m going to assume that you know the basics of what is included in the Yelp advertising package--certainly enough has been written about it by now. You receive features like an enhanced business profile with a video (which they arrange to produce for you) and photo slide show, a Call to Action Button, Yelp Deals, as well as a promised amount of ad impressions (yes, that's impressions, not clicks) at the top of the search results page and competitors’ profiles on both desktop and mobile.

As with last year’s presentation, I was sent an email with a collection of links to click through as the ad rep spoke. The first link was to Google Trends, which showed the upward climb of Yelp's use over the last five years. The second link pointed to a Bloomberg Businessweek article published on April 7, 2008.

Red flag. It goes without saying that, in internet time, 5+ years is an eon. What is the message that such an article sends, especially at the beginning of a presentation? Hasn't anything else positive been written about Yelp in the last five years?

The next link that was included is this article published on DrivingSales in 2011. The main question that the article asks is whether or not to use Yelp at all, and the author doesn’t speak from a standpoint of having actually benefitted (or used, for that matter) the ad package. Is this the best piece of content they could find about the use of Yelp in the car business, or did they assume I’d be impressed enough by the fact that it was published on Driving Sales?

This is a great reminder that a piece of content written for use in our retail auto “community” could be incorporated into a national advertising strategy.

Yelp prides itself on being a search engine for low-funnel shoppers ready to make a decision. If this is so effective, then why are the ads served up in the Wichita area only marginally relevant?

For example...
Central-Auto-Electric-e1381816117851.png

I love how "Sort By Best Match" is highlighted. So, the best match for a "car dealership" near Wichita is an auto electric provider? Now, I'm willing to forgive the fact that maybe there just aren't any more relevant ads to serve up. The problem is, Yelp promises a number of impressions based on your monthly fee, and I can't help but think that this particular impression was counted as one of those promised in the ad package.

Worst of all are the Business Owner Analytics. I check in to the dealership every day on Yelp, but these check-ins are counted as individual customer "leads," a number which the ad rep tried very hard to sell me on.
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In the last 30 days, I've checked into the dealership exactly 15 times. Yes, I do keep track of this.

Notice the first asterisk at the bottom. It says Each Customer Lead is assumed to be a unique customer. Strangely, the ad rep I spoke with was unaware of this "assumption." Hmmm...

I can't help but conclude that, at best, the Yelp advertising presentation is outdated, misleading, and condescending. Pair that with the fact that you have to sign a 12 month contract to get started, and you've got a definite NO.

Fast forward to DSES. I knew there wouldn't be enough time to address all of these points, so I wrote down my top three questions, which went unanswered today because Mr. Swift was saved by the bell. The questions were:

1. Why are advertisers required to sign a 12 - month commitment?

2. Why are ad impressions so expensive -- easily among the most expensive on the web?

3. Why are you unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between unique and non-unique mobile check-ins?

What question for you have for Yelp?

Ask away in the comments below!

 

Great Products Do Not Sell Themselves

Hey Joe,
Appreciate the comments. 
I enjoy these conversations a lot. 

I’m not quite sure what to make of your observation of the millions
of failed businesses.  I agree with you
that a lot of businesses (and people for that matter) fail despite having some
sort of plan.  That’s obvious.  Does that mean they shouldn't have one?  Thiel’s bigger point is simply that many
startups and individuals are “floating with the current” right now.  Even in the most indefinite of worlds, a plan
is still better than none.  Yes, plans can change but having one is still better than not. 
And on to the topic of luck, a fun one indeed!  I would agree that there is more depth to the
Outliers story than simply proclaiming 0 to n
is mere “Accidental Luck.”  The book
would end there if that was the case.  
Although he clearly doesn’t like it, Thiel’s observation is really more
an objective observation that societal attitude is trending toward the Luck
side of Luck vs Skill.   The actual argument
of Luck vs Skill aside, Gladwell, along with the media, movies, pop culture,
etc, has influenced this.
Your point that 0 to n
is COMPLETELY dependent on right place / right time is interesting to
me.  Couldn’t one argue that the very
skilled creators of 0 to n have gone as far as creating market conditions themselves?Creating a product or idea that is so good
that the market syncing is because of skill, not because of luck?
Reference for others reading this, here is a link to Masters’
notes on class 13 – “You are Not a Lottery Ticket”

Great Products Do Not Sell Themselves

What of the 10million business fails that preceded Peter Thiel's success? I guarantee you each of them had a plan that they thought was on the money. 
"...This accidental luck approach, notably highlighted by Malcolm Gladwell, is where American society is trending."
"Accidental luck" is not all about winning, it has a dark side too. Consider Dr Sam Hurst, he invented the touch screen computer in 1971.
Ouch.
Mike,  I am a big Malcolm Gladwell fan, connecting "accidental luck" to Outliers completely misses the depth of the Outliers story.    Going from “0 to n,” (the  Vertical/Intensive progress) is COMPLETELY dependent on being at the right place at the right time. (i.e. Dale Pollack's vAuto a great 0 to n example, it never happens in 1995). 
It takes a very brave soul to dare to go where no one has gone before (aka “0 to n”), but,  he must produce a solution who's day has come (the concept is in sync with the marketplace).

Great Products Do Not Sell Themselves

Your mind is software. Program it.  Your body is a shell.  Change it.  Death is a disease.  Cure it.  Extinction is approaching. Fight it.*

During the spring semester of 2012, a young looking and successful businessman instructed the course “Computer Science 183: Startup” at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. For 99% of the world, this trivial event went unnoticed.  It’s expected at an institution like Stanford right? The tech community, however, rejoiced.

The man was Peter Thiel and for the most part, Thiel is not a household name.  He doesn’t gleam celebrity status like Kim Kardashian or exude a superhero personality like Richard Branson. It’s OK though, because his resume does the talking:

  • Co-founder and former CEO of PayPal
  • First outside investor in Facebook
  • Co-founder of Palantir Technologies,  a billion dollar startup software company
  • Co-producer of Thank You For Smoking
  • Investor in The Seastanding Institute, an organization dedicated to experimental ocean communities
  • Billionaire

Suddenly, making it on the CS183 attendance list took on a whole new meaning.  Luckily, an even less recognizable name, Blake Masters, attended all of Thiel’s 19 classes for his Stanford Law Degree. Masters is an entrepreneur himself but it’s not his legal technology start-up, Judicata, which made him a notable name.

It’s the incredibly clear, concise, and powerful notes he published after each of Theil’s lectures that made Masters “famous.” For good reason, his notes became a sensation in the tech and venture capital community. They are like stepping into the mind of a genius. A genius that can tell meaningful and personal stories about how the world works, connect the disjointed dots of starting a business, and provide insight on strategy that every entrepreneur needs.

Digesting Master’s notes makes you feel as if you’re there. Like you’re getting secret insight unavailable to anyone else.  Like you should be paying for the content. Thiel himself said before CS183, “If I do my job right, this is the last class you’ll ever have to take.” Funny enough, Thiel is noted for his stance that too many people go to college in the first place.

The breadth of topics that he covers is immense. It includes the history of technology, life as a start up, the pitch process, the challenges of being a founder, economics of venture capitalism, luck vs. skill, energy and biotechnology, and artificial intelligence.  Be prepared for some heady stuff.

To help you dip your toes in the water, below are three interesting concepts as covered by Thiel. As Masters says before every section of his notes: “Errors and omissions are my own.  Credit for good stuff is Peter’s entirely”

Progress is either Horizontal/Extensive or Vertical/Intensive.

Horizontal/Extensive progress is pretty much just Globalization. It’s copying things. There may be small improvements, but it’s same stuff we’ve seen before. A new flat screen television, building roads, a new flavor created by Coca-Cola, these are generally easy.  We’ve seen a lot of this in the past few decades. Developing countries are a good example since they are gaining access to technology and infrastructure that we’re quite used to.  This notion of progress is also described as going from “1 to n”.

Going from “0 to n,” however, is Vertical/Intensive progress and is true technology. It involves building and doing brand new things.  Thiel’s PayPal is a great example, as are technologies like Square and Uber. Going from 0 to n  is hard. It requires a revamp of how we look at the status quo. In fact, it may even require us to ignore the bias of the status quo entirely.

The problem? People like going from 1 to n because it’s easy. It’s what we’re taught to do. We easily label the early trailblazers of true innovation that push us from 0-n as crazy, insane, or both. Yet, we need more of this. It keeps us moving forward. Areas like education, medical, and legal are desperate for technologies that go from 0 to n.

Great products DO NOT sell themselves

The term distribution is interpreted differently by different people.  A VP of Sales may view it as simply selling.  The Marketing Manager probably sees distribution as telling the story of a product to a huge audience.  The Logistics Manager will treat distribution much more literally.  In fact, distribution is really a catch-all term for everything mentioned above and more.  It simply refers to how you get a product to consumers.

The problem is that distribution generally gets overlooked by startups.  The idea that a “Great product sells itself” is engrained in many of our heads.  Assuming that a fantastic product will inevitably find a way to customers is dangerous because it’s false.  No product sells itself.  Check out the life and times of Nikola Tesla as an example.

This idea that no product sells itself is a harsh reality for a lot founders and ultimately, the elephant in the room is distribution.  This all may seem obvious to your typical salesman but the importance of getting a product out there is often easy to overlook.  Build distribution and many of your problems will take care of themselves.

You are not a lottery ticket

Society has long wrangled with this notion of “Luck vs. Skill.”  We love the notion that hard work and preparation leads to success, yet plenty of rebuttals exist.  For example, we’re pretty much born into a certain context with certain circumstances that define our destiny.  This accidental luck approach, notably highlighted by Malcolm Gladwell, is where American society is trending.

Individual and societal expectations for the future are vital to understanding how we act now.

  • An Indeterminate sees the future as unknown, random, and out of our control.  A clueless college freshman will choose a broad major and join a variety of clubs and activities.  A business will diversify their product offerings and investments.  

  • A Determinate view sees the future and known and controllable.  A college freshman will choose an accounting major, join the accounting club, and pursue accounting internships.  Businesses will focus on a single product and hedge their bets on key investments.

Whether you lean toward an Indeterminate or Determinate view of the future, you absolutely must have a plan.  The “winging it” strategy is too crowded and relies on luck too much.  Even in a world clouded with some valid uncertainty, your plan should be big.  It should answer the question “Where do I (or we) want to be in the end?”  Have a plan and your life won’t be a lottery ticket.

To read Blake’s notes, check them out here: http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup

* This quote headlines every one of Blake’s class notes.  As far as I understand, the origins can be found here: Eclipse Phase - Wikipedia

Digital Dealer 15 Recommended Sessions with Kevin Frye

Hum along with me - "It's the Most... Wonderful Time... of the Year!!!".

Wow, that Kool Aid I am drinking is strong, but I do look forward to seeing everyone for the fall conferences. After the best Digital Dealer yet this past spring, I am looking forward to what Digital Dealer 15 will bring to the table in fabulous Las Vegas.

Here are my humble recommendations on whom I am choosing to see, and of course I look for your input as well on the sessions you are looking to attend. I would also like to personally invite you to attend my session on Wednesday morning at 9:30 - take a moment to see my video preview below. I look forward to seeing you in Vegas...

Login to view embedded media View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCTIG9u2iIM


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My Recommended Sessions for Digital Dealer 15

 Time
 Speaker
 Tuesday, October 15th

 1:00 PM
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BDC or Bottom Line with Chris Hill

Should you use a BDC or have your sales people work your leads? Always a HUGE debate, and I don't think there is a better person to talk about this than Chris Hill. Chris is confident in his stance, and since he works on the front lines every day at this dealership, his words should carry a lot of weight with other dealers. Gotta love his description as well - Lack of manager motivation/training allowing a country club atmosphere for your sales people?  I will be in the front row Chris...

 2:00 PM
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When a Stranger Calls with Joe Webb

I am not sure why I am going. Is it because phone calls are likely the MOST important thing you should be looking at now with the rise of mobile traffic, or is it because I know that Joe has some great new videos in store for us, or is it because I am curious if Shaun Raines will join Joe on stage for an impromptu Karaoke concert...  Joe always delivers. And since Joe threatened me if I did not attend and he is bigger than me, I better be there.

 3:00 PM
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21 Ways to Help Your Store Build Engagement with the Millenial Shopper with Clayton StanfieldThere is a mobile revolution going on, and a smart dealer should want to learn everything they can about how to best understand and embrace mobile shoppers. This session will share a study that (among many things) shows how the approach to car shopping revolves increasingly around using their mobile device, and even better, Clayton promises to share a number of best practices to help dealers find best success.

 4:00 PM
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The Art of Enchantment with Guy Kawasaki
I have heard Guy before and he is a brilliant keynote speaker. Stand by to not only learn but to also be motivated...

 
 
 Wednesday, October 16th

 8:30 AM
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Tell Me Now with Ed Parkinson
Trust me on this - today's generation is focused on immediate response. Why else do folks search for the shortest line at the grocery store, and get impatient at the drive-thru when their wait takes longer than a few minutes. The top complaint shoppers have about buying a car is how long it takes. Ed tackles two issues for me in this session, how to get better and QUICKER with my response, while using MOBILE (I am also curious to the mobile approach he will be showing and legal ramifications).

 9:30 AM
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Back to the Future with ME - Kevin Frye
You better be there, and in the front row, even if you have to sit on someone's lap. I spend a lot of time thinking about the future of our industry, and you will get inside my mind as I show you where I think our dealerships will be in the future, but more important, what we need to do to lead and succeed in the future. There will be LOTS of real life examples (there is nothing better) on how to best engage with your digital customers on Social Media and Digital Marketing. Remember that my sessions are educational AND entertaining, and include videos and some fun give-aways. (Hint, study up on Back to the Future trivia if you want to win some of my prizes, or follow me on Twitter @kevinfrye1 for some hints...)

 10:30 AM
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The Digital Ambush with Seth Barron
No offense to Seth, but when I can get info "straight from the horse's mouth", which in this case is Google, I am excited to see what info I will learn.

 2:30 PM
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Dealer DIY: Inbound Marketing with Kevin Gordon
Kevin Gordon and Nick Williams have been rising stars in the industry, and their last sessions have been packed. Why? It's simple, they show dealers proven tactics that work, and that they can do themselves. I am a fan of "pull" marketing as the face of modern marketing has changed, where traditional "push" marketing does not work as well within the digital marketplace. Looking forward to it..

 2:30 PM
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How to Manage Your Vendors by Becoming a TV Detective with Subi Ghosh
You are correct, I have listed TWO recommended sessions for the same time slot, and I am going to spend time in both. Digital Dealer offers a LOT of GREAT speakers, and this is a classic dilemma for me.  Subi tackles a new area that I have not seen at any of the conferences, which is how to best manage your vendors. For us, a great vendor is a PARTNER, and they must share common core values with us to do business with us. Excited for Subi's input on this key area.

 3:30 PM
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Improve the Effectiveness of Your Sales & Service Outbound Email Marketing with Justin Brun and Ben Koller
For me, this is great timing as I look to update all of our email processes, with a focus on how to best perform on mobile devices. Surprise! Justin and Ben will be sharing best practices on how to accomplish this, with special attention paid to increasing open rates on mobile devices.

 4:30 PM
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It's Called a Marketing Mix for a Reason with Larry Bruce
There are 3 great speakers to choose from at 4:30 - and I am choosing to see Larry Bruce as digital attribution has been one of my top priorities this year (as well as for many other industries). How you determine and interpret digital attribution is the "wild wild West" right  now, and I am writing the book on how to do this at our group right now. Larry is always an outspoken and controversial speaker, and I look to see his input on this advanced topic.

 
 
 Thursday, October 17th

 8:30 AM

Peer Roundtables
GREAT addition by Digital Dealer this year. They are hosting peer roundtables before AND after the event. This is a great opportunity to meet with other dealers as the conference begins to wrap up and share what you have learned.

 10:00 AM
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You Sold a Car... Now What? with Bobby Gaudreau
You will learn in my session that customer engagement will be the number one skill you must perfect in the upcoming years. Bobby is going to tackle how to best keep your customers engaged after you sell them the car - and I want to see what he has to share.

 11:00 AM
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Always Be Relevant with Chris Fousek
Truth and relevance are the magic ingredients of successfully using social media to engage your customers (there's that magic word again - engagement). Chris is another dealer on the front lines who will use real life experience to share we can get better.

 12:00 PM
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Rick Case Honda - 12 Month Video Marketing Case Study Review with AJ LeBlanc
Video is big, Big, BIG in today's digital market, and AJ is going to share the results of a 12 month case study on how Rick Case Honda has used conquest video marketing and video pre-rolls to improve performance. I am particularly intrigued on the conquest video marketing aspect of this presentation. Don't disappoint me AJ!

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