HP wrote: "Another episode of musical chairs...but in the end, is there a substantial benefit to the end consumer shopping for a vehicle?"

Well, if you go to the Yahoo! Autos Suggestion Board and read what Yahoo! Autos consumers think of the switch, you'll get a good understanding of whether there is a substantial benefit to the end consumer shopping for a vehicle. Apparently, there is not.

kBB is a great company and has a great reputation however they have not been real successful in the transition to the technology solution. This is strange as they have the ingredients however the recipe has not clicked with the consumers.

It may be possible the marriage between these two may produce a vibrent, productive off spring. If it does not, I think it maybe another nail in the Autotrader coffin and with all the issues and set backs they have suffered the past few years, the increase in costs and overhead which they can not or will not control and the changing technology, they can not afford many more nails.

I still believe the only thing Autotrader can do to survive is to move operations off shore, maybe the Philippines or India.

In the 8 years of working with dealers and the internet, I have only maybe 3 times come across a customer that said they gathered their new and used car information on KBB.com. KBB is known for their trade-in values and I would venture to say that 95% of consumers that are on KBB.com are getting values for their car to trade and NOT there to search inventory or gather new car or used car information.

What would happen if KBB would remove all of the traffic from dealers? I'm sure they are not doing this when they look at the traffic number.

I'll tell you somethings else that I found was a waste of money..the Kelley Blue Book's regional advertising program with banner ads that show up when someone in your area appraises the like make. Thank got we were not paying much for it! The CTR was pitiful and the conversion even worse.

Jeff

"Lightnup -

Notice how the Cars.com guys actually use their real names? For some reason, they don't have anything to hide!

Posted by: Alex Snyder"

Nope, didn't notice that.

Another episode of musical chairs...but in the end, is there a substantial benefit to the end consumer shopping for a vehicle?

Ok, um, Alex, I hope your comment on the NADAguides and Jupiter Research report was meant to be a joke. We're supposed to be laughing, right? Did anyone run those numbers - the "in depth study" (as the NADAguides press release calls it) was of 106 retailers. ONE HUNDRED AND SIX! That's it! That is less than 1% of the dealer population! LESS THAN 1%! I am waiting for the correction to be posted on NADAguides that says "Psych - it was really 1006". At least that is 5%. The funny part is they say "28% of respondents spend more than $50,000 on online advertising" - woopy doo, that's 28 dealerships. I am not necessarily commenting on their findings - I just think their sample size is hilarious.

Now, I realize that in medical studies it is always a ridiculously low percentage sampling because there are a bozillion people on earth (yes, I like to make up words - it's fun), but there are only 22k dealers and they are listed, so you can get their phone numbers and call em up and do a survey! It's not that hard - I used to be on the vendor side. Cold calling was my j-o-b. So, NADAguides (who made a not-so subtle reference to their own lead service), next time you're up for doing a survey, give me a holler. I'll call up 94 more dealerships for ya, so you can have an even 1%!

What has made Cars.com powerful over the years is their connection to the newspapers. Where I have had success with Cars.com is in the synergy between the old school classified and the online listing.

Who got the better deal? Post the article again in 6 months and review the results.

Who is the real winner? All of us that use online advertising to deliver more customers to the dealership's doorsteps.

Competition draws more people to the action. Our consumers like alternatives, just as we do when choosing a Coke or Pepsi.

I'm going to use the "wait & see" approach to this classified swap. Cars.com didn't make this decision to leave KBB for Yahoo but it’s nice to see that Dave toes the company line. By the way Dave you need to check your facts before your next sales call. According to Nielsen KBB has 55% UC traffic...did you really believe that only 5% of KBB's traffic was people looking up their "Blue Book value" of their trade-in? If your stat is indeed true, the obvious question would be why did Cars remain partnered with KBB for so long?

I believe this is a tit for tat situation. Both companies are scrambling for an increase in visitors because their numbers are stagnating and Google is quietly looming. IMO Autotrader has a better site and has a larger share of the AIU audience. I agree with the posts on this site stating they've pissed off a lot of dealers with their greedy and arrogant approach. As for Cars.com, I think they’re a dealer friendly site with a tangible response rate in the markets where they have newspaper affiliation (Classified Ventures) and I can back this up with reporting from both types of markets). I hope their Super Bowl commercial does indeed increase their traffic but let’s be honest.…Do you remember any of the commercials from last year’s game? ………. Me neither!

As stated previously, I’ve got a “wait & see” attitude on this subject. However, as a customer of KBB and Autotrader I’m excited, I will actually have an exclusive callout on the KBB classified section.

Jeff,
Thanks for helping us get the word out about the free used car listings on Web2Carz.com for dealers.
I would like to add that not only is placing the inventory on the site is free the leads are free as well.

Alex Bravy
for ? please email me: alex@web2carz.com

Lightnup -

Notice how the Cars.com guys actually use their real names? For some reason, they don't have anything to hide!

If everyone made business decisions according to Alexa.com stats, there would be a lot more bankruptcy filings.

There are plenty of pros and cons to list between the two partnerships... but it's certain that both sites have as many eyeballs as they need to make it work, so I'd say it will come down to which site is the most dedicated to the arrangement.

But as a personal testimonial, as involved as I am in automotive Internet ops, I'd never think to use KBB to shop for my next car.

In the coke and Pepsi battle that is Cars.com and Autotrader.com, we have to keep our eye on the 8-ball and remember that advertising with these sites is all about volume, delivering the eye balls to your web site, your listings, to become your leads. Yahoo Autos is 7x as big as the kbb.com used section.

Also, on the Cars.com media buy, don't forget the Super Bowl. http://www.carsgameface.com

The NBA is fun for them, just like ESPN college football is for us- but the Super Bowl is what will differentiate Cars.com from Autotrader.com. And I have seen our Super Bowl commercials...they are funny as all h%ll !!

-Dave
312-601-5614 with ?'s.

According to Alexa.com only 5% of KBB.com's visitors go to their Used Cars section. Having 10 million unique visitors a month, that's about 500,000 used car shoppers. On the other hand, of the 130 million unique vistors monthly to Yahoo.com, over 6 million unique vistors go to Yahoo Autos monthly and Cars.com powers all the New and Used cars. That is 5.5 million monthly reasons why this is a better deal for Cars.com and its participating dealers.

Yahoo! is definitely the number one site for traffic but how many of those people are actually shopping for cars?

kbb.com alone gets more unique visitors each month than cars.com does (source: compete.com) and, most importantly, they go to kbb.com for car shopping info, not games, sports, news or movies.

AutoTrader.com definitely got the bettter deal.

Congrats Jeff!

Jeff,Congratulations on the new addition to your family. Wishing you much success with the new job and family!
Cheers!
-Pete

Congrats Jeff...I wish you and your family all the best!

Jeff- Congratulations, and I pray for a beautiful, healthy baby for you and your wife! If this is your first, you are in for a wonderful ride, and I can't tell you how happy I am for you guys. It is amazing how we can get caught up in what we do for a living, but then live comes along and teaches us (me) a lesson of what is most important.

CONGRATS to you and your family!

CONGRATS!!!

A congrats to you and your wife! It is not easy to have a little one! I went through it twice! I give her props~
HIGH FIVE to you JEFF! You ROCK DADDY O'.
What a great christmas present!

How fitting for this time of the year! Joy to your World! Congratulations and God bless... shoot for another and then you can go to zone coverage!

- Jeff

Congradulations!

Congrats Jeff!