They do have a valid point about bots.. I scrape our own listings every hour, my competitors daily, and I've found a ton of other sites that scrape them as well (automotive.com, for instance).

A similar situation occurred to us a couple years ago. They can't even manage to sent letters like this with the appropriate numbers involved! Why should I believe the statistics they provide us when they can't even send an accurate rubber stamp increase letter to the dealership? Why do we continue to pay them what we do? Please help me with this.

****************************************************************
Your Advertising Consultant has probably shared with you that we
are moving to a single renewal date. We hope this will make your
budget planning process simpler and more in line with other
media. Starting on March 31st, 2008, your new monthly rate will
be $620. Please contact your local
Advertising Consultant or the District Manager for your area,
Mark Busby at (901) 299-8602 with any questions or
concerns.
*******************************************************************

So has anyone confirmed with their AT rep that the new monthly rates is $620/month????

Ben,

That is very interesting, but in ATC's defense (can you believe I'm going to stick-up for them?!!!) a lot of Internet statistics are not accurate. There are hundreds of reasons for this, and will probably continue to be this way until some sort of regulatory agency/system is put in place for the entire web.

As far as our vigilance toward ATC, they've earned it. Despite statistics not being accurate the money sure is! They charge more and we get less. They're the only vendor I've experienced this with, and they needed to be called out on it.

All I can say is "Wow" after just having found this thread, it seems many of us are looking at our ROI from Autotrader with alot of vigilance these days. I wanted to ask if anyone else has noticed this disclaimer that Autotrader.com has recently place in numerous locations on it's activity reporting section of their back end tool?

† Autotrader.com strives to ensure the accuracy of our reporting and adheres to the Guidelines and Best Practices published by the standard-setting Internet Advertising Bureau. Despite our best efforts, the activities of data scrapers (which use automated "bots" to extract data from our website), coupled with technical complexity of measuring Internet traffic, sometimes make us less confident of our numbers than we would like to be. The numbers marked with an cross above may have been materially inflated by activity outside of our control. We are working to correct the situation, so that future reports will provide you with accurate data to help you drive your business.

Jeez...this post is still getting a lot of attention I guess. Just when I thought it was done, I come back and there are enough new comments to keep me reading for 30 min. I'd call that a hot topic.

Going back to the posts about Autotrader raising rates and having a common renewal date...I worked there for a few years and still have many friends who work there. When I asked about this rate increase/common renewal date, one Autotrader employee told me pretty much the same thing that Lightnup (aka Lighten Up) is saying. Autotrader is basically 'taking care of' their dealers who have been with them long-term. As far as forcing a common renewal date of 3/31/08, this makes sense from a business standpoint. For the dealers that are apparently getting hit with higher prices at that time, I would be mad as hell, but hey, if you want to be on Autotrader you have to pay what they ask for. Many of my clients have "downgraded" their Autotrader packages and are still seeing the same number of leads, so it's producing a better ROI with the cheaper package. (Note that I work primarily with independents).

Simon - I still think that internet marketing on Autotrader.com and Cars.com is a bargain, although as many have pointed out, for some dealers the money could be allocated differently for a better ROI. You may be one of those dealers.

Blanco - Definitely call Autotrader and get the rep in your store. Even if it's just stopping in to say hi, they should be showing their face.

TR - I would be happy to speak to you, but like others, I am curious what you're interested in speaking about. I've worked for both Autotrader.com and Trader Publishing.

TR,

You might get more response to your request if you let us know what is on your mind. For all I know you may be Lightnup's other alias hell bent on revenge against anyone that would leave the ranks. Once you're in the only way out is in a bag, right?

(Lighten up, Lightnup. only teasing)

Cheers.

Would the former AutoTrader/Trader Inc/Dominion employees please contact me at tr31762@gmail.com Thanks

Blanco - Call 800-353-9350 and tell them you need to see your rep this week or you are cancelling! There's no excuse for not having seen him or her for that long.

"Their rep is trying to get another $1000.00 on top of the new contract with nothing extra added to the package. That's way more then a 8% increase over what they are currently paying" We haven't seen a rep from autotrader in about 5 months, can't wait to entertain the next one that decides to show up for a renewal discussion.

Brian - What you posted as a "fact" is TOTALLY inaccurate and not at all factual. EVERY dealer on a regular monthly rate with AT as of the date that '08 rates became available are "Legacy dealers", as you call them, subject to the "Legacy" rates. Only dealers who were NOT AT customers on that date are considered New business.

What is a fact is that AT reps told their non-signed-dealers that they could get the "Legacy" rate, as you call it, IF they signed up before X date. Those dealers that chose not to are subject to the New dealer rate when they sign up. It couldn't be any clearer or fairer than that.

How can either of these companies seek to squeeze more out of us as I've been reading on this board and experienced first hand, receiving much less customer activity from either companies products for the past 18 months? I'm not sure how others feel but the strongest ROI for our dealership the past year has been our manuf's efforts in increasing their search engine display advertising and driving internet customers to us from it. We maintained our top tiered products w/both autotrader and cars.com last year but when we have sit downs with both of them in the coming months it will be to completely re-evaluate our positions with them. It's costing us more and contributing less & less, month after month. Both of them are crazy if you ask me, especially in this economic climate. In speaking with dealers in our immediate area, we all have experienced pretty much the same, I don't think this is a unique situation at least not in our area of biz.

Facts:

If you've signed with AutoTrader.com within the last 12 months as new business for them they will be seeking upwards of a 30% increase from you by 3/31/08. If you are a "legacy" account with them for longer than 12 months they will be seeking a "Legacy" renewal increase of 8% from you by 3/31/08.

Cars.com will be seeking a 20% increase in most markets also by 3/31/08

As sales in most markets for either imports or domestic brands have flattened and the customer activity from either brand of interned classified companies has flattened, it will be interesting to see which of these companies sustains the larger churn rate of unsatisfied dealer customers in 2008 as more & more dealerships place a larger slice of their advertising budget towards meaningful/trackable results from SEO & SEM.

Should be an interesting year for both AutoTrader.com & Cars.com

Lightnup-

Cars.com is owned by Classified Ventures, which is a joint venture between Belo Corporation, Gannett Company, The McClatchy Company, Tribune Company, and The Washington Post Company. Each market that Cars.com participates in is unique and managed primarily by the media partner(affiliate) located in that region, with the exception of a few markets that are managed directly by Cars.com. That being said, each market controls its own pricing and strategies for their Cars.com business. If a rate increase were to occur it is solely up to the local market/affiliate managing the relationship with the dealer. I have been working in Hampton Roads, VA for Cars.com/Tribune for 4.5 years and we have been very fair to our dealers when it comes to pricing. We are partners. If we were to introduce a price increase in 2008, and yes we are considering it, it would be fair and I doubt it will be close to 20%. I also doubt that Cars.com will receive backlash from the dealers for this, especially those in Hampton Roads,VA.

Hope this helps.

Lightnup, what market do you work in, or are you in AutoTrader.com corporate office in Atlanta?

Ian - Why don't you just say, "Hey, look at what I just copied and pasted from the Monday DearlerRefresh thread without verifying whether it's accurate or not." Unless, of course, you are the one that posted the same inaccurate message on the other thread.

Again, as was posted on THAT thread, if a dealer just signed up, or renewed their contract last week, they are NOT about to see another price hike. Why is that, you might ask. Because if they just signed up, or renewed their contract last week, they would have done so at Autotrader's '08 pricing since this is, um, '08. Those dealers are not about to see another price hike as Ian and Anonymous have both posted erroneously.

But those dealers are still going to be asked to pay more money for their Internet advertising soon, since the word has spread that cars.com is going up 20% across the board in March. (Apparently a rising tide does lift all boats.) Perhaps Ruby or one of the other enthusiastic cars.com employees who have posted here could confirm or deny whether that is true.

I just heard that AutoTrader was going to a common renewal date for all dealer on March 1st and rates were going up 8%. Even if a dealer just signed up or renewed their contract last week, they’re about to see another price hike.

Google is in the process of buying new technology that allows all information from a vehicle's description to be made "Google Readable." Once this is complete and the new technology is in place, ATC is done! Imagine entering the description of the vehicle you are interested in and Google immediately finds the most relevant vehicle within the closest geograhpical area. There will no longer be a need for ATC "advertising." Get those resumes together. What Google wants, it usually gets and they want to own the auto biz!

I don't think you're posting BS when you say Autotrader.com is raising rates again....No sir - I totally believe you on that one!

If a dealer just signed up or renewed their contract last week, they are NOT about to see another price increase, because they would have just signed up or renewed their contract at the new rate. New contracts and renewals have been being written at the new rate since before the first of the year. Those dealers are NOT going to see another price increase before the common renewal date of March 31st, as is alleged here.

You have misinterpreted what your buddy at AutoTrader told you. Please call him back, get clarification and post the correction here so that Alex doesn't think I'm posting BS again. Thanks.

Just talked to a buddy of mine at Autotrader and was told they’re going to a common renewal date for all of their customers on March 1. I witnessed the same thing happen years ago with TraderOnline and they saw a cancellation/churn rate of nearly 50%. Not sure about all the details, but this is what I’ve heard: My friend says the rates will be going up about 8% so even if a dealer just signed up or renewed their contract last week, they’re about to see another price hike. Seeing the AT.com post still getting comments, I know there are already a lot of people unhappy with their price increases, so if this is true I think it might be “the one” where it hits the fan for Autotrader. I was curious if anyone else heard anything like this?

I have reduced my auto trader account to the minimum program. I have added my own 800 number to my logo because they pull your number down when you purchase smaller packages. Now the are performing at an acceptable ROI. Get ready I hear they are lifting prices 8 to 30% in March. They may push themselves out of my market in Las Vegas.

I don't use Autotrader. I'm trying to get the clicks with SEM before you do. It's a lot cheaper for me that way.

I noticed that too Nathan. I figured the ones complaining before the change were Clarion Hilton Marriott Days Inn's and Lightnup's.

Wayne -

Add an analytics (ie: Google's is free, WebSideStory is paid) program to your website and you'll see all the stats on your AutoTrader traffic. (Incoming links, time spent, bounce rate & most importantly, conversion/goal ratios)

You'll know soon enough if your ROI is on target...

Eric

Anytime you improve and change a product you are bound to have a few people that resist. Roughly 3-6 million car buyers are going to yahoo autos every month and only a handful of people have made remarks. If you look a bit deeper you will see remarks made prior to December 10th.

On February 1st you will see the new car search change!

Nathan