Somebody at Autotraders getting paid fat, all I know is that it's not the Reps on the street thats for damn sure. To call this place a career would be stretching it, you're lucky if you can figure out what you're going to make quarter to quarter these days let alone trying to figure out if theres enough biz in your area left to stick it out a year or two. Just like the percentages of the price increases dealers are dealt, they don't care. Going to be left w/nothing but robots pretty soon if not already.

Somebody at Autotraders getting paid fat, all I know is that it's not the Reps on the street thats for damn sure. To call this place a career would be stretching it, you're lucky if you can figure out what you're going to make quarter to quarter these days let alone trying to figure out if theres enough biz in your area left to stick it out a year or two. Just like the percentages of the price increases dealers are dealt, they don't care. Going to be left w/nothing but robots pretty soon if not already.

Somebody at Autotraders getting paid fat, all I know is that it's not the Reps on the street thats for damn sure. To call this place a career would be stretching it, you're lucky if you can figure out what you're going to make quarter to quarter these days let alone trying to figure out if theres enough biz in your area left to stick it out a year or two. Just like the percentages of the price increases dealers are dealt, they don't care. Going to be left w/nothing but robots pretty soon if not already.

Used to be about "Dealer relationships" he he, not when the turnover is what it is and the average stay of a rep w/ATC is most likely about 1.5 years! Succesful sales people leave this company for a reason, they are as sick & tired of playing the shell games as the dealer customers are of playing it. Raise rates 80% to take into account the growing churn percentages, yeah, that makes sense????

Used to be about "Dealer relationships" he he, not when the turnover is what it is and the average stay of a rep w/ATC is most likely about 1.5 years! Succesful sales people leave this company for a reason, they are as sick & tired of playing the shell games as the dealer customers are of playing it. Raise rates 80% to take into account the growing churn percentages, yeah, that makes sense????

Used to be about "Dealer relationships" he he, not when the turnover is what it is and the average stay of a rep w/ATC is most likely about 1.5 years! Succesful sales people leave this company for a reason, they are as sick & tired of playing the shell games as the dealer customers are of playing it. Raise rates 80% to take into account the growing churn percentages, yeah, that makes sense????

Oh, and by the way, I too "left because I as an employee went from a first class citizen to a lower class, order taker, and renewal/contract robot". I think this speaks volumes to where Autotrader is headed, led by management robots, who are in turn led by upper management robots.

David Metter - nice post. I’m a big fan of a competent competitor, and am looking forward to seeing MileOne get more involved in the Southern Virginia market. On top of that, thanks for looking out for ole' Jeff! Your post cracked me up because I had a meeting with AutoTrader.com last Friday evening in my boss' office. We were meeting with them because we were not happy with the results we were getting for our recent Premium-AT.com-market-tests at the new rates. We are actually seeing less response on the premium level than we saw on the standard level. That is besides the point. The funny part about the whole meeting was from the "Dealer Group" AT rep saying "David Metter, of MileOne, was in the same shoes you're in Alex. He wanted to cancel everything. Since I started working with him he has become one of AutoTrader.com's biggest fans."

I was going to wait before posting my own experiences with AutoTrader.com, but I couldn’t stand not putting the AT rep’s statement to me out there after David’s post.

We’ve been on and off with AutoTrader for years. With the turn-over of dealership personnel, the industry is full of short memories and second chances, and we are no exception. All it takes is a new GM on the dealership level or a stronger AT sales rep to get AutoTrader back in the door. Then it is the same thing all over again.

I believe AutoTrader preys on high dealer turn-over and also preys on their own high turn-over amongst their sales reps. How many AutoTrader.com reps have you had in the past 3 years? I’ll bet AutoTrader wins the award for highest turn-over in sales reps amongst all third party lead providers. Yep, that’s right, I called AutoTrader.com a “third party lead provider”. Newsflash AutoTrader: you’re playing on the Internet, you’re trying to get customers to call and email dealerships, and you’re trying to deliver traffic to a dealer’s website. Yes, you’re also putting customers on the lot, but we all know that cannot be tracked effectively. At the end of the day you fit my definition of a “third party lead provider”, so accept it and let’s not have that argument ever again. Yes, that also means I’m going to rank you against Cars.com, AutoUSA, Dealix, and all those other things we have allocated to the…..drum roll please….”INTERNET BUDGET”.

We just recently signed our Honda and Toyota stores up. Toyota was a deal cut through our regional Toyota ad agency, so it doesn’t cost us anything to be on AutoTrader for the standard service. Honda was signed up as a test. We had some extra money left over from a radio campaign allowing us to “experiment” with a few different Internet ventures. Our Hyundai/VW location was already on board, so I am using this opportunity to really see if AutoTrader is worth the money at their higher price points (compared to when we participated at half the price). We have made some internal changes to make our online inventory list stronger/better since the last time we were a premium AT dealer, so I think this is going to be very telling of how well AT works today. They have one more month on my test program.

So far, I’m actually receiving less leads/phone calls as a premium dealer than I was as a standard dealer. I still have the same issues with Atlanta, and the same stories from my reps. We get a whole lot of looks on cars that were going to sell anyway: older, cheaper, foreign cars…..cars that don’t even need to be marketed. The things we need to market don’t get any extra exposure I can track – phone calls and emails. The response from AutoTrader is “you have to list your specials, you have to get into our tool to monitor what is selling in your market…..blah, blah, blah, blah”. My response will never change: “why do I have to pay you to do more work myself?”

To re-summarize my 2007 “test-run” of AutoTrader.com: It has given me fewer leads than I had back when I was with them from 2004 to 2005. I have less than half the leads I receive from Cars.com. I have to log-in to another friggin’ back-end tool to see what is going on. I am still fighting with my rep. I am still asking the question of “why”. I still remember that I saw absolutely 0 change in the number of cars we sold after we cancelled AutoTrader last time. It still isn’t helping me sell the inventory I actually need help with.

I feel like I am giving AutoTrader the biggest effort I’ve ever given them, this time around, but the results are going to be the same.

Boy, seems like this topic comes up about once a year and creates a firestorm. Let's see, once a year the topic comes up, the Autotrader.com renewal rates increase once a year...coincidence? What I find interesting is that dealers always go off like this when they're up for renewal but they quiet down for about 11 months after that, almost like a boxer takin' one on the chin, talking a little trash, and then falling to the canvas.

I worked at Autotrader.com for a couple of years too, and like TJ said, the corporate mentality is that "they'll be back eventually". I'm in the process of compiling some data, but the preliminary results show that overall leads per vehicle are down from the previous year - not just down a little here, up a little there, but down in an amount that is statistically significant.

So this begs the question: why do dealers continue to use Autotrader.com more than any other site?

I think the answer is fairly simple. Although the ROI may be flat, or even as it seems to be trending toward ROI losses year over year, Autotrader.com does have the highest traffic numbers. In the end it's still a good deal (in most cases) compared to other media because there IS a return on investment. Does this mean you shouldn't be angry? Of course not - I would be furious and would probably cancel on principle if I were a dealer. There is however still value to Autotrader.com, even though that value seems to become less each year.

The question of whether you should pay the rate increases or cancel is a tough decision. Sure, marketing money could be spread around effectively if done properly, but your competition will get some of those deals that you would have closed if you were on there too. For this reason I have been recommending a lot of our clients downgrade their packages with Autotrader instead of cancelling altogether. Customers go there for one reason - to find a car. When you can pay $2000/month or $1200/month to have your inventory listed in the same section of the site, it only makes sense to downgrade.

"...left because I as an employee went from a first class citizen to a lower class, order taker, and renewal/contract robot" Just wanted to take a moment to clarify that the lions share of these recently implemented price increases are not finding their way into the current sales staff of ATC's pockets either. It's purely a corporate greed strategy to make yearly numbers. They've lost many good veteran sales people from the remarkable corp greed attitude in the place, it stinks in here.

"...left because I as an employee went from a first class citizen to a lower class, order taker, and renewal/contract robot" Just wanted to take a moment to clarify that the lions share of these recently implemented price increases are not finding their way into the current sales staff of ATC's pockets either. It's purely a corporate greed strategy to make yearly numbers. They've lost many good veteran sales people from the remarkable corp greed attitude in the place, it stinks in here.

"...left because I as an employee went from a first class citizen to a lower class, order taker, and renewal/contract robot" Just wanted to take a moment to clarify that the lions share of these recently implemented price increases are not finding their way into the current sales staff of ATC's pockets either. It's purely a corporate greed strategy to make yearly numbers. They've lost many good veteran sales people from the remarkable corp greed attitude in the place, it stinks in here.

Maybe this helps explain things:

ATLANTA (Business Wire EON) October 31, 2007 -- AutoTrader.com (www.autotrader.com), the ultimate automotive marketplace, was once again rated as the most useful automotive site among used-car buyers who visited the site in the J.D. Power and Associates 2007 Used Autoshopper.com study, released October 25. This marks the fourth consecutive year AutoTrader.com has attained this rating.

Hows this explain twice the rate of their largest competitor for the same measured ROI for the past 18 months? Is it me or does Autotrader.com merely pontificate off of JD Powers every year in an attempt to justify 80% price increases in some cases? Not working with us this year that much I can tell you. "Usefull" is great but when the rubber hits the road as it were Autotrader isn't justifying it's cost per month with ROI in our store anymore nor has it for the last several months. Our call numbers are not justifying an 80% price increase, what does JD Powers have to say about that I wonder?

A.T. does this because they can. Other providers get their visitors from a better quality source that is more local. Cars.Com is everywhere and in front of people locally and nationally and that just draws better.... oh ya, at a way better ROI! Plus, all the "partners" that AT braggs about don't amount to squat. Anyone can look up the numbers. KBB, MSN and other all draw people for reasons other than car shopping.(hotmail, news, etc) The only auto channel on the rise is Yahoo! and AT lost that one. As a consumer (of A.T.)money speaks, I don't spend with them, then the price hike doesn't effect me. Plus it feels good to go to a cheaper, better way of doing things! (Cars.com and local seo)

Maybe this helps explain things:

ATLANTA (Business Wire EON) October 31, 2007 -- AutoTrader.com (www.autotrader.com), the ultimate automotive marketplace, was once again rated as the most useful automotive site among used-car buyers who visited the site in the J.D. Power and Associates 2007 Used Autoshopper.com study, released October 25. This marks the fourth consecutive year AutoTrader.com has attained this rating.

Come on Shaun! My Bose speakers sound just fine in my family room.... It seems like most dealerships feel the same about Autotrader but why do we continue to feed the beast. TJ was right-on about his comment regarding the inventory but Autotrader isn't the only one that does this, they just charge more than anyone else...

Dealerships have allowed multiple vendors to get rich at our expense. We have the assets, pay the light bills, employee expense, rent, etc. and must live with tight margins. Certain vendors use our inventory, our real estate, our brand, to profit (at much larger margins) and grow their business. Take two minutes and really think about the 3rd party lead business model and it will make you sick. The paid-search business model isn't any better because vendors have us competing against each other, tier two money (which is ours), and tier one (our partners?).

Back to Autotrader. Autotrader will continue to raise their prices because dealers continue to pay those prices. The only way that AT will stop the increase is if dealers cancel and new deals stop coming in. We can stop this madness by investing in our own sites, building great content and a positive buying experience, and making our inventory presentable and searchable online. Remember, it's our commodity that we are selling.

Big Al,

I can be a little crass for sure, but I got to call 'em like I see 'em. The questions are asked and I have to give my answer and sometimes they are as blunt as a sledge hammer. I will chill out, but if its a fire brand question, you know I can't always hold back.

Gary,

Thanks for your comments. I agree with some of the things you're saying, but not the way you're saying it. Would you mind keeping posts constructive?

Thanks!

Autotrader.com used to be worth the ROI received from it at the previous rates from 2 years ago but is hardly worth the price increase justifications they now attempt to get from us now. We generate more & more ROI from our website and SEO thru our manuf on new & pre-owned vehicles than we ever did before. How to they actually expect the price increases to be justified when those of us paying attention to the performance metrics now it's all double speak? They tout themselves as "marketing" and not "lead generation" well guess what? if you're not generating any "leads" for us in comparison to the price of the products, we're going to spend the money elsewhere to "market" our vehicles & dealership. They've put the horse way ahead of the cart this time around. Anyone also notice they're looking for sales staff all over the place these days? not to hard to imagine seeing how things are going w/them.

What is the saying about a fool and his money? Any Jack Ass foolish enought o spend a dime on with AutoTrader/AutoMart.....etc..deserves to lose it. Who in their right mind would do it? Justify it any way you want, but AutoTrader and their ilk suck.

Last year with Autotrader.com premium top tiered listings ran a rate of $2900 a month. This year it's $5600. Same size audience, same response metrics as others have mentioned, some bells & whistles but ROI has dwindled. They must've penetrated the market pretty sufficiently and are looking strictly at raising revenues from existing dealers willing to pay except many in our immed area are not willing to pay exhorbitant rates for the top tiered products anymore. Who's stepped down to the middle tirered products with them and noticed little or no change in call rates/ROI? Tell us your experience in this please.

Each of us has a limited "pot of gold" to spend each month towards our marketing efforts, and selecting the best source of leads that lead to sales is the ultimate goal - correct? To do that, one must measure their ROI each month on their lead sources, and identify what marketing efforts work, and which ones do not. For us, AutoTrader performs the same as Cars.com (almost dead on for leads, calls, and views/impressions), yet AutoTrader costs 3-4 times more than Cars.com. Do we get 3-4 times better performance with AutoTrader? No. Does AutoTrader and Cars.com perform better than several other lead providers? Yes (especially AutoMart, which ranks almost dead last for us with year to date results). AutoTrader has also barraged us with "take your newspaper money and spend it with us". More than ever, our marketing dollars are a limited resource, and smart dealers must spend them wisely. The problem is that most dealers are not "smart" - ask your typical dealer what the top 10 auto websites are with the most hits? Most will answer that AutoTrader is #1. WRONG. End of year results for 2006 show that eBay Motors was number one by a huge margin, and that AutoTrader was #4. Understanding that, we want to have AutoTrader as part of our equation, but the price must be right for the results. Our smaller rooftops (with a smaller budget) use Cars.com over AutoTrader, because it gives them the same results for a MUCH lower price. I will say on AutoTrader's behalf that installing CRM's at our locations has helped us track the "walk-ins" that result from AutoTrader. It is not a huge number, but this allowed us to better measure the overall ROI for AutoTrader. Conclusion - if you want to sell us on higher rates that are 3-4 times higher than other providers that can give us the same results, you need to to show us how your service will give us 3-4 times more benefit... - Kevin Frye

Come on you guys! AutoTrader needs to increase your rates, so they can continue to sponsor NFL half-time shows and cool stuff like that.

What's that saying...? "Better products through marketing."

Just like Bose speakers sound great in the specifically designed room at the mall store, then not so good in your house. AutoTrader leads come from a popular, well known brand, but when you close 2% of $2500 worth of leads, you're really paying $2500 to waste 98% of your time.

Ahhhh finally free from the spin, greed, and corporate B.S.

I use to work for AutoTrader.com and have read this blog for the last year and half agreeing with 99% of what was said but never had the chance to finally express how right all of you are. The funny thing is without your inventory there would be no AutoTrader.com. However, they (they = AutoTrader.com Mgt./corp) only care about making more money every year.

Is this a bad thing.. not really we all want to make money right? But they have done it in such a way that they could care less if you cancel because "you will be back" and "your business will hurt without them". Guess what. Pricing will continue to rise more and more, bells and whistles will be added but will not increase your sales as much as the rate increase. Also, expect new products or solutions that ask for "Newspaper money" you are currently spending.

Another thing.. Cox owns AutoTrader.com and... guess what else they own that has been a great topic of discussion recently (Automart.com). (Coincidence that all of sudden they are now appearing as high as they are on "J.D. Power" hmmmm.. that's interesting... And don't leave out AutoExtra.com (look at the bottom of the home page and click careers- says "Cox AutoTrader), Manheim Auto Auctions, Cox Radio, Cox Media, Atlanta Constitutional Newspaper, AutoTrader Mag and the list goes on. So when you look at your advertising mix and how many times is Cox getting your money over and over again every month from all of these "separate" acting entities?

Yet.. let me guess what you will hear from your Reps... Exposure, Exposure, Exposure.. when at first it was leads leads leads and how they can track everything (except Walk ins right?). Sounds like when the newspaper went from Circulation, Circulation, Circulation to now "Readership"

Welcome to the spin factor and get ready and be prepared for rate increases every year... This is coming from a rep that was there for almost 2 years. Of course, my opinion... and admittedly left because I as an employee went from a first class citizen to a lower class, order taker, and renewal/contract robot.

If you ever get sick of spending thousands and thousands a month there are many other internet related initiatives you can take. One of which is pay per click campaigns with Google which I'm helping dealers with currently.

Your website is your highest rate of return typically, why not invest in that. And before I get the "autotrader.com, cars.com drive people to the website" yes I agree they do. However, they also go to your competitors sites that are on there, and if you took half of what you spend monthly with these sites and strictly targeted keywords your clicks would be double, triple, sometimes even more and they are only going to your website and inventory.

How many more years will they/can they continue to increase the price they charge and add little or nothing new to the game except a little hype and new skins

If they are going to continue to raise prices they must offer somthing worthy of the increase.

They need to move their operations to another country where there are less expensive operational costs and roll back their prices to the clients

Many people list their vehicles for sale on autotrader.com. They spend time and money then receive phone calls from other companies offering to sell their car for a fee. So they pay Auto Trader to list their car for these other companies to see and call to solicit.

This is a complaint you hear a lot.

At some point Autotrader will just run out of room.