oops,
Sorry about that typo Alex!

anyhow, best wishes with your "plans in the pipeline "

Andrew,
After taking a quick look at your site, one last thought. Here maybe another reason why your lead count maybe down.

A Paradigm Shift is upon us all.
"Small Dealers must Beware the Beast"

Fact:
Internet shoppers are drawn to selection like a moth to flame. Inventory size is the GLUE that holds Internet shoppers interest. Scale works on the Internet! If your large, very large, your site becomes a destination. Average visting times can be 300% higher for megastores then for single stores. My average visit is under 4minutes. I've have 2 new mega stores in our small market and they're >11 minutes per visit!! The sucking sound is deafening! The megastore site becomes the "1st stop" to see whats just arrived. This is a synergy to hook shoppers that no smaller store can match.

Lastly,
The "thrill" of the 'net shopping experience has gone the way of the sunday drive. Websites are a window into a store. I personally would rather visit a store with lots to see vs. a "we can order it for you" place.

See for yourself:
Autotrader.com vs. Cars.com

=See avg. # of visitors.
=See Engagement> Avg. stay Monthly

Then,
Plug in your site and players in your market (and out of your market).

Hope this helps,
Joe

Joe,

I assume you're speaking to me, not Andrew.....

"If you've won 'em over once on the net, they'll assume you've got the right package and they're less likely to shop ya' the next time."

I agree with that - I see it all the time. Many repeat customers purchasing cars from the dealership, who went through the Internet department on their last purchase, are not using the Internet department on this purchase. In my opinion, this is a good thing! The irony of our jobs, as Internet people, is to get people off the Internet. We cannot sell a car in an email, so the ultimate goal is to get a customer in the showroom. If the customer opts to not use the Internet department on future purchases, and heads straight to the showroom, without shopping competitors - is this not the absolute best scenario for the dealership? I am an Internet guy speaking to a bunch of Internet guys, and realize this is a bad scenario for our paychecks.

"Ergo, Less requests for 'net quotes is a good thing." - I think we're saying the same thing.

Another side to the coin, are all the trends the Internet goes through. This "Internet Thing" is still in its infancy. The government is still trying to find a solution on how to handle it, and new business ventures come from it every second. Will everything we're talking about in this thread be worthless next year?

In the meantime, I'm not looking for a solution to what is or isn't a problem on my end. I was simply putting my dealership's "situation" out there as an example. I've got some plans in the pipeline My reasons for starting this thread, although I kept this agenda hidden in the original article, was to bring up discussion on the topic of "where are the customers going?" I wanted to put a thought out that I don't think many people have considered.

Andrew,
Have you had chance to plot your poorly trending lead volume vs. % of a trend of repeat buyers?

It's a hunch, but I suspect IF you've been tracking repeat buyer penetrations stats, you may be looking at a undiscovered Internet windfall. If you've won 'em over once on the net, they'll assume you've got the right package and they're less likely to shop ya' the next time.

ALSO, there is the "Jet Blue" effect.
Personally, when it's time to fly, I ALWAYS hit JetBlue.com 1st, THEN, I goto the 3rd party sites if the JetBlue offer is "above market". TV's, leather, wide and deep seats... ahh..... If your customer shoped you hard, bought from you AND your group has bowled the customer over with a great experience, it only makes sense thay they're less likely to shop ya (again).

Ergo, Less requests for 'net quotes is a good thing.

Let's connect the dots for your department.
IF this is the case, then this is a huge victory for the mothership. If this is the case, then your group should consider Internet Exclusives for NEW clients. Establish an incentive earmarked for the new guy becuase once you win 'em over, he/she'll be back again and again.

How to present this to the shopper? Benchmark: http://www.royalcaribbean.com/gohome.do

DAMN THATS SMART, REAL SMART!
Tailor your message to the visitor.

Enjoyed your efforts here,
Hope this helps,
Joe

Thank you all for your comments so far. Andrew has caught on to the bigger point I was trying to make by my example - I wasn't looking for advice on my own business model, although I always appreciate it!

"I am not entirely certain of the answers here, but I think Alex is right with his analysis. To me, the crux of the solution revolves around getting back to a relationship-based approach. It need not be a salesperson-customer relationship so much as a dealership-customer relationship."

This thread was started to raise an awareness amongst the Dealer Refresh readers. I'm concerned about a trend that we, Checkered Flag, are seeing amidst our VW, Audi, and Scion customers. My concern is that we are doing something, as an industry, to make customers not want to submit inquiries. My concern may be a little premature, but I'm a firm believer in catching the problem before it escalates further.

Maybe this isn't a problem at all. Maybe the Internet, including our dealership sites, are becoming so resourceful that all questions are answered. Maybe the customer is more apt to just show up on the lot because everything was provided beforehand? I do have some numbers to back that up.

We survey every customer who walks out of the Finance office. It is a quick electronic survey the customer fills out while waiting for tags to be issued. In looking through the old surveys I've noticed less VW, Audi, and Scion customers are shopping our competitors (one of the survey questions). It trends around the same time period as when we stopped receiving as many leads on those brands. It also coincides with the increase in our site traffic. If more people are coming to our site, not shopping our competitors as much (translates to more gross), but not interacting with the Internet department, is this a bad thing?

Has the Internet conditioned us to not contact someone before purchasing? I've been using eBay since day one. In the early days I would not purchase anything without having some sort of communication with the seller beforehand. Today, I simply look at the feedback and pull the trigger. Of course, my eBay buying habits change depending on how much an item is, but I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars without any communication with the seller. Amazon, computer hardware suppliers, car modification companies, B&H Photo Video...these are other places I've spent over $1,000 with, without picking up the phone or sending an email. Maybe I am like most of the other "experienced Internet shoppers" who have been conditioned to just pull the trigger with the posted information at hand.

I am far from an expert on the dealer side of the equation, but I have been squarely in this space since I started CarSpot back in 1995.

Back in the day, the neat thing about a customer using the internet to contact a dealership was that if a dealer was even online at the time, odds are there was a very unique sales person handling the internet side of the equation.

Such a person would typically be willing to interact via the customer's preferred method of contact, would answer any / all questions in a no pressure style, and would just generally buck the (right or wrong) stigma often associated with the car buying experience.

Over the years, dealerships learned that the internet was an extremely trackable means of communication. This in and of itself is not a bad thing and in fact should be a great thing.

However, as the focus began to shift away from relationships and over to "generating more leads" the problem began. I cannot tell you how many dealer sites have been rigged to "generate more leads" (i.e. some have pop up contact boxes constantly bombarding you until you finally fill one out).

Sure, that may "generate more leads" than not having such a feature, but if you are simultaneously scaring away a huge percentage of visitors--visitors that may no longer even consider your dealership as an option online or off-, is that a good thing?

I am not entirely certain of the answers here, but I think Alex is right with his analysis. To me, the crux of the solution revolves around getting back to a relationship-based approach. It need not be a salesperson-customer relationship so much as a dealership-customer relationship.

I also think that you do want to generate leads and track as best as possible, but not at the sake of ruining the relationship or tainting the overall experience.

This may mean fewer leads than possible, but happier customers overall and better results from the leads you do have as well as from customers that are customers despite not generating a lead.
--
Andrew Salamone
carsgofaster.com

Hmm.. "Our dealer site has grown exponentially in traffic, but our lead conversion rate has remained relatively the same." If the conversion rate is the same... then nothing has really changed. If you are getting more traffic and conversion rate is the same then you are getting more leads. To do any better at conversion you have to optimize for conversion like Corey said. But the honest truth is at max you will only convert 7% of your traffic... heck if you are doing 4-5% you are doing pretty good.

Could the drop in Audi,VW and Scion be linked to there websites not actually linking to your site but their mini sites. BTW Audi has a horrible website... doesn't work in Firefox and spits out java script errors in IE.... ERRR

Checkout the blog LunaMetrics on some nice conversion tips. AI Services for Enterprise Transformation | Bounteous

"Our dealer site has grown exponentially in traffic"

Was the traffic increase a result of improving or promoting the site?

I wouldn't expect a conversion increase unless the site was improved to convert better.

Alex,

I can attest to the fact (from my own experience) that lead volume generated from brand to brand varies and has seen huge swings (like 300 leads per month down to 50 for a VW dealership that I work with.)

I would like to guess that this has something to do with new models being released or a loss of market share, but it is probably not the answer.

My personal opinion is not to look at this as a dooms day scenario, keep positive & the leads and sales will return. In the mean time, you may want to look at your website for solutions:

1. Does your website make it easy for the customer to find the information that they are looking for?

2. What do you do to build value in the vehicle that you're selling? Also what do you do to build trust with the customer (on a personal and dealership level)? And can you do better?

3. Do you give customers a reasons to submit a lead? (ie: free window tint with purchase through the internet department... or maybe offer a 1 hour purchase program - something that's only available through an online inquiry).

4. Does your site tell customers who is receiving their information and what is going to be done with it? I know that the name of the game is to sell cars, but customers may be afraid to request more information, as they will be followed up with (or bugged) until they buy or die. In the case of a secure credit app, what do you do to show that the site is secure? Do you show that your site is secured & can you add credibility by showing that you are member of BBB online... if you're not, you may want to join (it's pretty inexpensive).

5. Do you advertise your website OFFline? (think license plates, license frames, service loaners... maybe the front door of the dealership?)

I know that my answer didn't address your question of where all the leads went, but I hope that I have given you some ideas of what you can do with your current website to generate more leads, which in turn will generate more sales!

-JoE Drosen
National Sales Director, CarSpot
888-698-7768 x124

"I came up with the idea that these customers have realized that there are not too many advantages to using the Internet department when purchasing a car." - Alex Snyder

Alex, First off, nice post! I enjoyed the read!

I would say that your above statement hit the proverbial nail on the head. The lines that once separated the internet experience from the experience that a consumer has at any number of showrooms in todays progressive dealerships has blurred to be almost indistinguishable.

What I mean by this is that I think we (the internet folks at the stores) have grown complacent and have not grown with the consumer and maintained or developed unique value propositions to keep the customers submitting leads to our stores.

What now separates the "internet experience" from the regular old car buying experience in general?

I could go on and on, but you get the idea...

Right or wrong, just my opinion.

Steve Williams

Some interesting observations you make there Alex...

1) Are consumers on the Internet because they only want to do research and to find efficient ways to inquire of your dealership?
2) Do they get a good experience via the third party lead providers as they inquire + receive their follow up emails and phone calls?
3) Do Internet customers really want to come in to the showroom as a next step to submitting a lead?

I believe your article indicates real world recognition that the more comfortable the consumer with the Internet, the less they participate in the current Internet lead model. If that is true, where is this going?

I've paid attention to the seminars that focus on how to respond, technologies and processes to make a BDC or ISM efficient and that is all good infrastructure to have. I do. I think it is a lot of hard work, but with some cost-effective and creative effort on marketing your dealership online, that good , profitable results can be achieved.

If 80+% of consumers are on the Internet, they are basing their decisions at least somewhat on what they find there. What does your dealership's brand look like online? Would you buy from you if you experienced that brand online?

But what if the end of the road for an online consumer was not an inquiry?

What if true eCommerce in the form of consumer-facing desking + F&I existed for dealers to provide to their consumers?

What if admission to such a dealer system was free except for a validated email address?

What if the ISM, BDC infrastructure kicked in to assist with unsold consumer account follow up?

Would that sell more cars?

Would that bring consumers to those dealerships with such a system over those that do not have it?

Would having "The Only Complete Online Buying Experience" for your brand in your market be worth advertising?

Those of you who read this blog regularly know me, my company and what I do... but I like Jeff too much to turn his blog in to a commercial.

Most of the 3rd party lead providers state they will not charge for duplicate leads as well as the OEM's I work with.

We are lucky that we use salespoint as our LMT and they have a great solution on ferreting out duplicate leads.

I audit this monthly and send the duplicate leads back to the provider for full credit.

I have noticed that the majority of the leads originate from the OEM sites consistently over the course of the months business. This is month after month. So the OEM leads are still the most valuable.

Some of the web site company's state they will increase the site activity and increase the sales however they usually want the dealer to funnel all the leads including the OEM leads which they are paying $15-20.00 or more per lead into their LMT and this will distort the numbers and skews the reports.

Dealers if they wish to track true; the leads, they need to keep the OEM leads separate so these company's cannot use the leads they generate to bloat their figures. Some of these company's charge $5-6,000 per month and the dealer is also paying $15-20.00 per lead, plus many duplicates so the cost could increase 3-fold. Then they wonder why they are losing money. Some of these dealers are getting the royal fleece.

Jeff has got a great site (no cookie cutter here) and I will bet the website cost is not costing $5- 6,000.00 plus per month.

I'm sure you won't be the only one testing this time around. Great story.

I agree, Ryan, that blogging is a great way to inject accountability into situations where it can help everyone involved. What worries me, though, is a response like Phil's (but not necessarily Phil's) that discloses customer information.

Phil's comment is helping this situation, and I'm not accusing him of anything here. However, when a business gets called out and has to defend their practices privacy sometimes gets thrown out the window.

Phil said "All three of these leads were individually entered on the Yahoo! Autos website."

Can you confirm or deny that, Jeff?

This is a good demonstration of how and why blogging is important.

The thread brings to mind the Engadget/Kryptonite incident where Engadget syndicated a thread about Kryptonite's locks capable of being hacked by a Bic pen. Kryptonite did not catch wind of the thread until after it was too late, and the result for Kryptonite was a class-action lawsuit.

Phil, I am encouraged to see your quick action here to address the concern. I think it says a lot for your organization and as threads like this become more regular in the industry, companies that are quick to respond like this will retain their competitive edge.

Jeff, I want to make sure that the incident you are referencing in this blog stays with direct focus on the company you are detailing, AutoUSA. This, I can state for a fact, is not an industry wide standard practice.

As you know jeff, I am the President of www.dealerlinkusa.com (DealerLinkUSA). We are a PPC/SEO/SEM marketing firm. Our leads are generated in multiple ways through various search media. We, without exception, refuse to charge for leads on a per lead basis. We will generate as many quality leads as possible through a monthly budget program.

I may be naive, but I'd like to think that the situation you incurred with AutoUSA is somewhat isolated. I can't help but think, they would be in all kinds of hot water if there was any trend like this to be uncovered. Hopefully they will correct their error and it will be the last issue you have with them.

Jeff,

We searched our system for all leads with the Marie Zahn name and found four. Three of them went to your dealership and were submitted on these dates: 10/13/2006, 2/22/2007, and 4/29/2007.

All three of these leads were individually entered on the Yahoo! Autos website. Yahoo! Autos has confirmed that they never resend leads—each is uniquely entered by users. Since Yahoo! sends leads from their website only, they confirmed that these leads were typed in on their “get a free price quote” lead form which has dealers listed for selection. Whoever typed in these leads had to specifically select your dealership in order for us to send you the lead. Since the leads are several months apart, we did not filter them out as duplicates.

The fourth lead was for a different make and came from the PriceQuotes website on 11/13/2006.

AutoUSA is very sensitive about websites creating duplicate leads and selling them to us. We have stringent filters to catch duplicates within a certain timeframe. We only work with the highest integrity websites and we will not buy any leads from websites that automatically create duplicate leads.

We do understand that Internet customers can go to several websites, including the dealer’s website, and request the same vehicle from the same dealership. We can only filter out the leads that come through our system. Dealer CRM’s or CRM ad-on software may be needed for dealers to filter out duplicate leads that come from different lead providers.

If you or your readers have ideas on how we can improve our duplicate filtering, we would love to hear about them either as comments on your blog or emailed directly to us at support@autousa.com.

Thanks for the heads-up Jeff. I've got my own test lead out there now.

Joe,

Thanks for the plug, unintentional as it may be...

Yes, i-LeadControl does look at leads over 30 days old, you simply plug in the desired date range and voila! However, most lead providers will only give you credit for leads that duplicate within a 30 day time frame as you mentioned.

Like most who read this blog I am also discouraged by the ability of the lead providers to take advantage. I hope i-LeadControl can do it's part to help out...

Best regards to all,

Steve Williams
i-LeadControl

This sounds like a problem for i-LeadControl? From the article you posted not too long ago, I didn't catch if i-LeadControl can look at leads that were generated over 30 days ago. (ie: in this case) AND no, I don't work for them, I am just trying to relate one post to another.

Jeff, do you think that you would have caught this duplicate if you didn't generate the lead?

In my past life, I was the eCommerce Director of an 18 store dealer group. I would like to think that my ISMs would have caught such a duplicate, but I am guessing that it would have never been flagged for a credit (and we probably would have assumed that the same customer came back through another website & would have been charged for it.)

It's disappointing that such activity happens. I know the big lead providers are pretty good about giving credits, but they usually expected me to pay for the same information twice if the inquires are more than 30 days apart.

-JoE Drosen
National Sales Director, CarSpot

Driver Education Online course is state and DMV-approved teaches you strategies for safe driving, defensive driving techniques and state specific rules and regulations that are necessary to qualify for your DMV Learners Permit.

FYI we were closed from Dec 24 - Jan 2nd, for the holidays, with support via email & ticket system. Any yea we have been working on our new car configurator and hoped to release it at the new year, we are days away from a release and will be sure to promote it on Dealer Refresh.

Chris I will call you shortly to demo the new tools with you...

Chris,
They are different. The "Ken Burns" Slide Show is annoying. Love the image size.

Speaking of image size...
Your camera flash is on too often on the interior shots.
Love your indoor photo area, very clean and bright.
Your camera may need some work, it's either set wrong, or it could uses an upgrade. It seems to wash out on very bright days and struggles with the bright white walls inside.

On the interior shots, made indoors, experiment with turning that flash off and swing thoses doors open. Indirect light is your friend, find it or make it when ever you can!

Love your work!
Joe