Mandates (vaccine) and the Automotive Dealership Industry

[Alex Snyder]

From an employer perspective, there is a reason that so many have already implemented this rule. Many large companies self insure their group health plans. Maxed out policies are not good for those numbers. They have recognized the data and are putting their faith in those numbers. Of course those numbers are the vaccinated vs unvaccinated hospitalization numbers that we are dealing with right now. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that there is a 10X higher chance of hospitalization among non vaccinated people. BUT, that doesn't change the fact that people don't like to be told what to do nor should they be.

Like you, I don’t have 100 employees to have to worry about a mandate at this time. However, the position of health care coverages is one that could impact us. Things are moving so fast, I’m in the “let’s pause and consider things more“ camp.

Three things have happened since Biden made his mandates:

1) Israel and Singapore, who were donned as the most vaccinated countries are now showing more vaccinated people as hospitalized COVID cases
2) Vermont is the most vaccinated state in the US and is the most impacted currently (they’re blaming unvaccinated kids )
3) Numbers are beginning to come out of Massachusetts showing the balance of hospitalization has tipped to being more vaccinated people

Stats are stats and they can be skewed any way anyone wishes. But flu season hasn’t really started yet… oh wait… what am I saying… flu was eradicated last year. My bad

 

[Tallcool1]

Like you, I don’t have 100 employees to have to worry about a mandate at this time. However, the position of health care coverages is one that could impact us. Things are moving so fast, I’m more in the “let’s pause and consider things more“ camp.

Three things have happened since Biden made his mandates:

1) Israel and Singapore, who were donned as the most vaccinated countries are now showing more vaccinated people as hospitalized COVID cases
2) Vermont is the most vaccinated state in the US and is the most impacted currently (they’re blaming unvaccinated kids )
3) Numbers are beginning to come out of Massachusetts showing the balance of hospitalization has tipped to being more vaccinated people

Stats are stats and they can be skewed any way anyone wishes. But flu season hasn’t really started yet… oh wait… what am I saying… flu was eradicated last year. My bad

You make good points Alex. No argument from me.

So damn many numbers floating around it's hard to know what to believe.

 

[ryan.leslie]

Where is that 11-foot pole I used to bring to Refresh years ago? You certainly can't touch this topic with a 10 footer!

I don't think anyone knows the right answer, but I do think we can make some assumptions about what will happen in our industry if mandates take effect based on the response to earlier mandates in other industries. There will be concerns, there will be pushback, there will likely be lawsuits, and there will definitely be employee churn. Check this out:

https://news.google.com/u/0/search?for=vaccine+mandate+lawsuit&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Here are some of the headlines that jump out to me:
"More than 500 LAFD Staffers File lawsuit..."
"Massachusetts State Troopers Union sues..."
"Kentucky Hospital Workers File Suit..."
"LA officers sue over vaccine mandate as police across California threaten to resign"
"Thousands of LAPD employees plan to seek vaccine exemptions; police officials sue city over mandate"
"Officer of nearly 30 years resigns over COVID-19 vaccine mandate"

It takes a lot of years to earn the degrees and highly specialized certifications required to perform those jobs. The fact that any of them, and by some accounts MANY of them, are willing to walk away from those careers as a form of protest or expression of their desire for personal choice is noteworthy for an industry where a wide diversity of backgrounds thrive, the skillset that makes employees successful is transferable to other sales-based careers, AND that historically faces challenges with employee churn.

This is just a guess, but if this mandate stands, I'd bet you'll see some folks taking their skills and experience to other industries or to stores with less than 100 employees, but I don't think we'll be the only industry in that boat.

 

[Alex Snyder]

Here are some of the headlines that jump out to me:
"More than 500 LAFD Staffers File lawsuit..."
"Massachusetts State Troopers Union sues..."
"Kentucky Hospital Workers File Suit..."
"LA officers sue over vaccine mandate as police across California threaten to resign"
"Thousands of LAPD employees plan to seek vaccine exemptions; police officials sue city over mandate"
"Officer of nearly 30 years resigns over COVID-19 vaccine mandate"

It takes a lot of years to earn the degrees and highly specialized certifications required to perform those jobs. The fact that any of them, and by some accounts MANY of them, are willing to walk away from those careers as a form of protest or expression of their desire for personal choice is noteworthy for an industry where a wide diversity of backgrounds thrive, the skillset that makes employees successful is transferable to other sales-based careers, AND that historically faces challenges with employee churn.

This is just a guess, but if this mandate stands, I'd bet you'll see some folks taking their skills and experience to other industries or to stores with less than 100 employees, but I don't think we'll be the only industry in that boat.

Nurses, firefighters, and police officers could make killer sales people! <off to make hiring ad>

Can they learn to code …probably should leave that one for the coal miners.

 

[ryan.leslie]

Nurses, firefighters, and police officers could make killer sales people! <off to make hiring ad>

Can they learn to code …probably should leave that one for the coal miners.

That is the silver lining, right?

Some good people may be open to things they hadn't otherwise considered.

 

[Richard_Lloyd]

It's shocking where we are after nearly 2 years of this insanity.

Vaccines are safe and effective? Great! Have at it, literally no one is stopping you.

You don't want a vaccine? That's okay, I have one and I'm protected. (/s)

Tons of displacement and re-org is about to happen, but I honestly believe it's going to be a big positive across the board.

 

[ChrisR]

Saw this on LinkedIn today:

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Robert Malone​

Inventor of mRNA vaccines and DNA vaccines; world-wide expert in RNA technologies RW Malone MD, LLC: Consultancy and Analytics in the Bio-sector


On Monday, I flew back from Portugal. In order to come back into the country, for which I am a citizen of, the USG insists on a negative COVID-19 test that is less than 48 hours old. The USG government does not accept the CDC vaccination record, in lieu of the test. No problems with this procedure or this policy, as tests in Portugal are cheap and readily available. Testing is by far the best way to ascertain if someone has the virus (edited: for the purpose of singling out positive people prior to allowing people into a crowded situation, with travelers from all over the world). I believe that this is an admission by the US government that the vaccines are not working to prevent COVID-19 spread. So, why the vaccine mandates?

Of our employees that are Covid-19 positive here, only one has NOT been vaccinated.

Saw another photo to piggy back on @ryan.leslie 's comment - of a medical professional carrying a sign, "Last year's hero, this year's unemployed."

 

[Ryan Everson]

I'm surprised the automotive conferences like Digital Dealer and Driving Sales haven't made it more clear that masks will be mandated at the conference (and Vegas in general).

Some dealers may not handle the news well after coming from states with no mask mandates.

 

[Tallcool1]

Like you, I don’t have 100 employees to have to worry about a mandate at this time. However, the position of health care coverages is one that could impact us. Things are moving so fast, I’m in the “let’s pause and consider things more“ camp.

Three things have happened since Biden made his mandates:

1) Israel and Singapore, who were donned as the most vaccinated countries are now showing more vaccinated people as hospitalized COVID cases
2) Vermont is the most vaccinated state in the US and is the most impacted currently (they’re blaming unvaccinated kids )
3) Numbers are beginning to come out of Massachusetts showing the balance of hospitalization has tipped to being more vaccinated people

Stats are stats and they can be skewed any way anyone wishes. But flu season hasn’t really started yet… oh wait… what am I saying… flu was eradicated last year. My bad

I wasn't going to dig into my response (see above), but I decided that we are all mature adults that have a pretty good understanding of data.

When I look at data, I try to envision a story problem much like we all encountered in elementary school. Billy is 7, and his sister Mary is 5 years older. How old is Mary. The story problem that is being presented above (Three things have happened since Biden made his mandates) is of no value as it relates to how an actuary would determine if their health insurance group is stronger or weaker because of vaccination (as an example). There is one big piece of data missing. Without that piece of data, it is impossible to draw any conclusions one way or another.

I am not disputing the validity of the above statements. I am however supporting @Alex Snyder final paragraph and how stats can be skewed any way we wish. The numbers aren't being skewed to tell a lie. I believe the numbers are true. The problem is that the numbers that really tell the story aren't presented. So many numbers, so much data, it is difficult to sort all of it.

This is not an attack on anyone or their stance on this issue. It is also not a rebuttal. I am very much observing @Jeff Kershner wishes in his original post.

 

[Alex Snyder]

The problem is that the numbers that really tell the story aren't presented. So many numbers, so much data, it is difficult to sort all of it.

Clint. There is too much data, too many voices, and it is all boiling into a huge pot of "untrust."

One of my favorite rationalists is Mike Rowe. For anyone who doesn't know who Mike is, he was the host of Dirty Jobs and voices many Discovery Channel shows. His podcast "The way I heard it" is phenomenal for those who like 15 minute bites of history in a very entertaining way. This one is a good one to start with.

In August, Mike posted on Facebook that echos your point, Clint. It is a good read in my opinion: