Off Topic & Everything Else

A dealer shares a cautionary tale of losing $88K to an identity theft scheme involving a fraudulent online vehicle purchase that appeared legitimate until delivery. Responses from other dealers highlight preventive measures including notarized documentation, third-party verification services like Maverick, and requiring deposits via credit card with advanced authentication protocols to shift liability away from the dealership.

# Summary Automotive industry professionals debate the optimal monthly lead volume for Internet Sales Managers (ISMs), with opinions ranging from 80 leads to 200+ leads per month. Key disagreement centers on whether ISMs should handle fresh leads exclusively or manage a pipeline of aging leads, with Jeff Kershner arguing that 80 fresh leads per month combined with a backlog of 150-170 active leads from previous months enables ISMs to close 15-20+ cars effectively without cherry-picking, while others contend that 180-215 leads enables top performers to sell 20-25 cars monthly. The emerging consensus suggests lead capacity depends heavily on lead quality, ISM skill level, available support tools, and whether a BDC handles long-term follow-up after 45 days.

A new member introduces himself to DealerRefresh and shares his perspective on why traditional forums remain valuable despite the rise of social media platforms like Facebook. He appreciates the community-oriented nature of forums and expresses enthusiasm about participating in discussions within the automotive industry. The thread receives a brief welcoming response, establishing a positive tone for the newcomer's participation.

A new member named Tom Davies introduces himself to the DealerRefresh community and expresses enthusiasm about participating and learning. Alex Snyder playfully asks if Tom is a long-time lurker who finally joined after 8 years, but Tom clarifies he's genuinely new to the forum. The exchange is a lighthearted welcome with no significant conclusions or insights beyond basic introductions.

# Summary Ali Reda claimed a single-year sales record of 1,582 vehicles (1,530 new) in 2017, breaking Joe Girard's 1973 record of 1,425 vehicles, though Girard disputes the achievement and questions whether fleet sales were included. The thread debates the legitimacy of the record, with community members noting Reda's impressive average of ~130 vehicles per month while discussing whether Girard's skepticism stems from fleet inclusion or simply sour grapes from an 89-year-old former record holder.

# Summary Conor shares his WardsAuto article on marketing to millennial car buyers and solicits dealer feedback on their readiness to reach this demographic. The discussion reveals strong pushback against negative millennial stereotypes—with data showing millennials actually outspent baby boomers in 2017—but also practical disagreement on tactics, particularly whether social media is a worthwhile investment for local dealerships versus national brands. The emerging consensus emphasizes that while age demographics matter, millennial buyers are diverse and shouldn't be overgeneralized, and that dealerships should focus on fundamental customer experience improvements rather than assuming all recommended tactics apply equally to smaller operations.

• Poll

# Summary Alex Snyder initiated a poll to determine average pay for Internet Sales Managers and Directors at dealerships, intending to help professionals negotiate raises. Respondents revealed that ISMs perform extremely broad job responsibilities—ranging from lead management and website/SEO optimization to social media, inventory photography, IT support, and floor sales coverage—while questioning whether their compensation reflects this workload. The overwhelming sentiment expressed frustration that ISM positions are significantly underpaid relative to their actual duties and responsibilities.

• Poll

# Summary Jeff Kershner created a poll asking the DealerRefresh community to guess the real identity of "kcar," a member he accuses of trolling and adding little value to discussions. Kcar responds by joking that he's Kershner's "certified personal assistant" and will rebrand the site as "KcarRefresh.com," while other members speculate he could be Cardoll, Jeff's alter ego, or a specific Northeast-based industry figure, but no definitive answer emerges.

# Summary Alexander Lau asks which vendors and software solutions best handle customer retention across sales and service operations. The discussion reveals that while retention software exists (AutoAlert, Demandforce, etc.), the real challenge isn't technology but human execution—dealers must proactively treat customers well throughout the ownership lifecycle rather than relying solely on automated marketing tactics, and integrated platforms that consolidate multiple functions into one dashboard offer practical advantages over piecing together separate vendors.

# Summary A Ford dealer experienced a dramatic drop in referral traffic from Ford.com (from 78 to 2-5 referrals monthly), which Ford acknowledged was a technical issue they were working to fix; the traffic was being miscategorized as "direct" rather than properly attributed as referrals. The discussion then pivoted to broader criticism of FordDirect's recent vendor selection of Jazel and CDK over alternatives like Dealer Inspire, with participants sharing concerns about the decision-making process and cautionary tales from Ford Canada's failed mandatory digital marketing program.

# Summary A college accounting student newly hired as a Finance Manager at an independent dealership seeks advice on establishing basic F&I operations from scratch, including finding lenders, sourcing products, and implementing proper sales processes. Experienced forum members recommend partnering with F&I consulting groups (like Ethos or Service Group) for training and products, establishing relationships with multiple lenders starting with local credit unions and major banks, and prioritizing the presentation of aftermarket products with good margins. The key insight is that building a profitable F&I department requires both vendor partnerships for training and legitimate product offerings rather than relying solely on subprime lender products, while also ensuring strong cash flow management through quick deal funding.

DealerRefresh and Jornaya are conducting a research survey about the automotive internet lead industry to help dealers better understand lead quality and sourcing. The survey aims to gather data from automotive marketers about their experiences with third-party leads and how they distinguish serious buyers from unqualified prospects. The underlying premise is that as online car shopping grows, dealers need better tools and information to evaluate lead sources and improve their customer acquisition strategies.

Rick Buffkin notices dealerships running poorly targeted digital ad campaigns that waste budget by advertising outside their markets and states, and asks the community if he should notify them. The discussion reveals this is a common industry problem where vendors mismanage ad spend by expanding geographic targeting at month-end to exhaust budgets, though one dealer counters that out-of-state sales are sometimes intentional and legitimate. The key insight is that dealers should audit their ad vendors' targeting practices, as wasteful spending drives up advertising costs for competitors in the same market.

# Summary Dealers discuss methods for tracking transaction discounts—the difference between a car's final sale price and its last advertised online price—as a key performance metric tied to individual sales managers and representatives. Responses reveal multiple tracking approaches ranging from manual Excel spreadsheets to automated warehouse systems that integrate inventory management software, with some dealerships incorporating transaction discount data into sales compensation structures. The consensus emerging is that transaction discount tracking reveals behavioral patterns in sales and management more effectively than other metrics, and using it as a performance review or compensation tool has proven effective at holding pricing discipline and improving gross profit.

# Summary Dealers discuss various approaches to monitoring their online reputation, from free tools like Google Alerts and Google Blog Search to paid solutions like Dealer.com's Social Relationship Manager. The consensus is that while free services provide basic monitoring, paid tools offer more comprehensive tracking of review sites and threaded conversations that free alternatives cannot capture. A key insight is that proactive reputation monitoring is becoming increasingly important to dealership success, though getting internal staff buy-in remains a challenge.

Automotive sales professionals share humorous anecdotes from their early careers, including mishaps like awkward customer interactions, learning dealership quirks like balloon tying and popcorn-making, and unrealistic requests from management. The thread showcases the learning curve and sometimes absurd experiences that come with working in the car business. The underlying sentiment is one of camaraderie—these veterans found the chaos worth it, with one commenter noting they stayed in the industry for 19 years despite the rough start.

# Summary A dealer questions whether automotive tech vendors are genuinely solving business problems or merely creating new ones to sell solutions, citing how each innovation (CRM, Dealertrack, syndication) emerged to address issues caused by previous technology. One responder argues the industry is inventing problems and should instead focus on expanding the actual customer market, while another counters that vendors must identify real dealership pain points and address them—suggesting the debate hinges on whether vendors are diagnosing problems or manufacturing demand.

A DealerRefresh moderator wishes the community a happy Labor Day and encourages members to return the following week with questions and topics to discuss for personal growth and community engagement. The brief exchange shows positive rapport within the community, with another member responding warmly to the moderator's enthusiasm.

Chris Cachor asks how dealerships protect their vehicle inventory ahead of major hurricanes like Irma—specifically whether dealers relocate stock to safer locations or rely on insurance coverage to handle potential losses. The question highlights the significant financial risk hurricanes pose to dealership operations and inventory management.

Jeff Kershner shares a comedic video by Joe Webb called "GUYFAX," a parody dating app for women that humorously applies automotive industry technology concepts to real-world dating scenarios, created for a Women in Automotive Conference. The post encourages viewers to subscribe to Webb's YouTube channel and praise him as an authentic voice in the industry. One commenter questions the necessity of dating apps, suggesting in-person interaction is preferable.

• Redirect

# Summary Automotive industry professionals share their current projects and initiatives, ranging from Rick Buffkin's website pricing application and Alexander Lau's Smart TV automotive marketplace to Jeff Kershner's focus on dealership merchandising and lead scoring through tools like AutoHook and Adpearance's Foureyes platform. The discussion reveals a common theme that while data analytics and advanced tools are valuable, returning to fundamentals—proper inventory merchandising, lead quality assessment, and effective rep alerting systems—often delivers the most immediate results with limited staffing. The thread highlights how dealers are exploring both innovative channels (Smart TV, Google Analytics attribution modeling) and refined processes (lead scoring, inventory syndication) to improve customer acquisition and conversion.