Sorry - Had to jump in here to respond to Joe Pistell who wrote: "Why don't we have a personal video from the hard working and passionate ISM rather than "YOU MUST PRINT THIS PAGE AND ASK FOR PAUL H JOHNSON FOR YOUR TRUE INTERNET PRICE"."

That's already available at no charge Joe and you can probably guess where.

Unfortunately, as simple and easy as shooting a brief video is, it's mind-boggling how few dealers will make the effort to better merchandise themselves this way, even when the opportunity is right in front of them. Only the relatively few "enlightened" dealers are doing so. I suspect it's because many others don't see an immediate cause & effect (i.e., post videos = X more sales per month) so they aren't interested in investing the time or effort.

So nobody say first "they are already free listing services"...I know that but none have any "wind" because they all are waiting to catch a free wave that dealers will jump on magically and they can sell their company for big money, NOT going to happen.

When I see them at the stores hustling to get dealers signed like Autotrader then maybe they will make it. Cars is backed by a multi billion dollar company that will lose money and squash the college kid start ups.

Does anybody know of the one that just spent 6million in six months and is gone already?

I apologize in advance for commenting on my own comment, bad blog manners.

Take care and all the best to everyone.

This has been fun and so long,

Pete from the Windy City

"They both have let the boat pass them"...

I agree totally with you Paul it has and just because you can still see the boat, doesn't mean it hasn't passed.

The big reason that Cars and Autotrader still exist is that although it cost big $$$$ to list aggressively, it's still cheaper than a dealer trying to launch a nationwide campaign on their own to reach that large of a targeted audience.

Kaboom! and they will both be gone once someone gets enough wind at their back to offer the listings for free.

I have had a discussion with the newest big man on the internet block and we'll see if it all comes together in time.

I have some foresight opinions here that once Microsoft takes over Yahoo and the time is right Yahoo autos and Msn autos combined just put together a one two punch knockout if they decide to offer to list for free in lieu of placed ads.

Hey Cars.com and Autotrader want to stay in business?

Start reading Jeff's Blog and hire us all here as independent ISM marketing consultants for big $$$ because the more powerful that Jeff Kershner's blog becomes we may all power info together and buy you out to go away...☺☺☺☺all the way to the bank!!!

Oh, and one more thing from my end... I want the IP and URL that generated the lead... click stream data too.

Mike Muncy / Founder & CEO / Carfeine.com

Jeff: The last thing that the 3rd party lead providers want to do is become transparent. They don't want you to know where you got the lead generated (remember your point of womanmotorist.com some time back?) and they certainly don't want to integrate with something like lead scoring. That'd be like the proverb of taking off the nose to spite the face.

Chris: There are certain technologies and services available to those in Internet auto sales to help manage the various lead channels and restore some transparency.

Joe & Paul: Here's an idea that I'll give to this community. (It's definitely a Web 2.0 approach) Instead of being charged to send your inventory and descriptions (the valuable content) to a site like cars.com or autotrader.com? Why are the dealerships not getting the service free - oodle.com or vast.com -and actually being PAID a percentage of the ad revenue that each of their vehicles generates? Here's the point: If you have hundreds of vehicles and you have popular vehicles in stock then you should be generating quite a bit of eyeball traffic. If these companies are really partners then shouldn't both parties be more equitably profiting?

Better yet, why don't they adopt the floor salesman compensation model and be paid more for a sale versus an up?

Mike Muncy / Founder & CEO / Carfeine.com

-----The money is better spent on a speed pass which is what Cars.com is.

Autotrader better get it together fast because they are getting stomped on by Cars.com-----

They both have let the boat pass them.

Paul Rushing

Great discussion and here is what I will add;

This paying to vendors for "drive to traffic" amounts to a toll both on the (very old term) internet super-highway.

Everyday there is new and a better means for customers to travel to a dealers website and paying for how many people drive by is soon to be gone, but maybe not because dealers are slow to realize things most of the time.

The money is better spent on a speed pass which is what Cars.com is.

Autotrader better get it together fast because they are getting stomped on by Cars.com

Ebaycars, was great to brand in the past but to sell a late model car not so sure unless its a 1978 Pontiac TransAm...still cool to me but it was my childhood dream car so I would look there to find it.

Hey who turn the spring weather off here in Chicago, brrrrrr!!!

From Classified Sites, what do I need? I want *Web 2.0! I need them to give me tools to create content, then get out of my way!

*Web 2.0 is web design that aims to facilitate creativity, information sharing, and, most notably, collaboration among users Web 2.0 - Wikipedia

Look what happens at MySpace and Facebook. Personality rules! Nothing plain and boring there! Marketing leaders (like me will create all kinds of fun stuff to make that shopper hang around just a little longer.

What am I talking about?
Why don't we have a personal video from the hard working and passionate ISM rather than "YOU MUST PRINT THIS PAGE AND ASK FOR PAUL H JOHNSON FOR YOUR TRUE INTERNET PRICE". Just like on MySpace, Small Entrepreneurs could offer widgets to implant all forms of fun widgety stuff.

If I am Chip Perry, and I can add a platform and tools to empower our dealer base with a goal to create UNIQUE content that will retain visitors longer, its a win-win-win. The last win would be keeping shoppers off competing sites like cars.com.

Joe
(yes.... it's me again)

Great comments Chris. It's easy to tell you're right in the middle of the battlefront at your biz.

re: Classified sites
Chris, I'll take the other side of the argument. In my world (a marketing director) all the points of measurement are important. Click-thrus, printed pages, emails, phone calls, all are signs left from shoppers who prefer to remain anonymous.

Although these activities do not directly correlate to sales, they trickle down to floor traffic. If you improve your classified presentations and activities are up 20% year over year, then floor traffic should be seeing a similar increase in Mr. anonymous internet classifieds shopper.

Joe

I want more activity, more eyeballs on my cars and less features that don't bring any value or ROI to my bottom line from having them. Banner ads are worthless, it's all about the cars. I'll pay for better placement as it makes sense but stop adding crap that does absolutley nothing to increase our ROI with the product we've purchased. Spend into partnerships with other large websites that WILLl deliver more eyeballs to my vehicles. Stop quoting JD Powers, nobody cares. When I'm selling the same amount of units off of craigslist for zero spend than I'am with cars.com/autotrader, what's that telling me as a dealer? Sure the cheap stuff & trades work on craigslist but for free they are delivering the audiemce/eyeballs to these cars for me. I believe there is about to be a considerable shake up in the online classified advertising world for us as dealers. I'm not seeing the ROI we once achieved from them, not do I have the confidence that we will ever attain the levels we once did in utilizing them. Big question is why are we paying exponentially more for less?

"Last thing; develop a secure credit application that can be sent to a CRM or lead management tool. Having to log into a separate account to retrieve a finance application not in your format is a pain."

Great suggestion Chris. I have been against having numerous unnecessary systems for a long time.

I'd like to see these companies move to a more fluid business model. So many of these third party lead providers get stuck in their ways. I think Jeff is going to comment on this further, but in a nutshell, times are changing and most of these companies are not.

The classified vendors, AT Car.com Vehix, need to remove the leaks from their sites or change their pricing models. Dealers are being taken advantage of in these relationships and most do not realize it.

The maxim in online marketing is "Content is King and Traffic is Supreme" and they are charging dealers to provide them content to monetize the traffic it brings in above and beyond the fees collected from the dealer.

I would say all of the above. Like everything lately, third party lead providers are evolving. Companies like Autotrader seem to be making a stand that they are advertising, just like newspapers, t.v. and radio. They, according to my rep, do not provide leads.
Others, like Vehix and the like, count leads as the way they prove their worth. But, unlike most of them Vehix used to come to the dealership to go through the leads to see which ones actually sold.

Going forward:

I don't care about unique hits, page views or search impressions. I care about how many people I received and of those people how many I sold. To me, that is the purest form of ROI.

Website click throughs and maps are subjective.

I would love to see these companies develop a way in their tools to track the sold, the price point, days in stock etc. I also would love to see 3 rd party vendors get away from roof top pricing. I have 23 vehicles at one store and 300 at another, why are they charged the same thing?

Charge per vehicle uploaded. Allow the dealers to be more unique. Offer BHPH products. Don't say that you are a partner, then sell the same package to everyone else.

Last thing; develop a secure credit application that can be sent to a CRM or lead management tool. Having to log into a separate account to retrieve a finance application not in your format is a pain.

To summarize; get better at the little things. These companies are like the yellow pages; they tried so hard to make it easier that the average person of intelligence doesn't get it.

WOW Alex, stirring up the pot on a Friday? This should be a well read topic with all of the vendors on this site!

I read here daily and generally choose not to post, but I came across the autodealermonthly.com Dealer's Choice Awards last week and instantly wondered what Jeff, Alex, Joe and the others from the DR community thought about it. I hope I'm not off topic. But how do DR reader's wants and needs from a provider line-up with the "results" of these awards?


Looking forward to following this one,
JL

We have used DealerFire for the past 2 years and the results have been incredible. They have helped us build a CUSTOMER FRIENDLY site, no flash, easy for our customers to use, navigate and see on all devices. I love having a website that I can add content on the fly and the architecture is extremely SEO friendly. The increase in car sales and service speaks for its self. Keep up the great work and incredible dealer support DealerFire.

Our dealership has been partners with DealerFire for a few years now and we have been very satisfied with them as our website provider. We have always loved the design of our sites and DealerFire has been able to maintain a fresh look to them over the years.  I also think the customer service has been impressive.  They respond to my requests in a timely fashion and maintain very quick turnaround times.  I would absolutely reccommend DealerFire to another dealer who was looking for a new web presence and who expects their provider to go the extra mile to ensure their success.  

We signed up with Dealerfire about 7 months ago and I am completely satisfied. Their Support Staff is professional, easy to work with, and efficient with handling all of our needs. I would give Dealerfire a 10 out of 10!

These guys provide a GREAT webpage, and provide EXCEPTIONAL support.
The reason I am loyal to dealerfire is the service. Leif, Per, Paul and the whole team are SO responsive they provide the best service everytime. I seriousy feel as if they work for ME and only ME!

A quick note on Dealerfire. We had a problem a few years past, we had dealer endorsed websites that did a job but not the job. We wanted to be excellent in every aspect of our dealership from top to bottom and than go beyond excellent. Dealerfire has not only helped us achieve excellence like we wanted, but they exceeded expectations. Our website consistently achieves a top spot in all web page searches, and we have consistently exceeded our previous years average for hits, transitional leads, and final deliveries. From our first selling experience with Kristen, to the service after the sale with Kristen, Leif, Per, Edsel and the rest of the technical team, the experience has been A-1.

An amazing aspect of the company is that they are so fluid. Always changing and always evolving you can expect they don't rest on their laurels. When we need something changed or added to our website, it is almost instantaneous and done with quality.

Using Ignite, which allows you to change basic information on the website (salespeople, bios, hours, etc) is user friendly and has an intuitive interface.

If anyone would like to have any questions about our experience please feel free to call me at 800.459.6840, I would be glad to help.

The support staff is THE BEST! Very fast response times and great communication.
Beth Henke
Customer Communications
San Diego Volvo
San Diego CA

Eric,

Just wanted to send a quick follow up to let you know that everything went (relatively) smoothly Wednesday night and Auto Plus version 2.0 hit the streets of Northeast Wisconsin on schedule this morning. We still have some minor issues to work out, but overall I'd call it a smashing success. Thanks to you and everyone at Dealer Fire for helping making this possible. Your team did a great job and special thanks are in order for Per as well as Farrukh and his team, at least one of whom stayed on through the night to make sure the feed was ready for us on time.

Many thanks, and have a great weekend All!

Nick

Nick Wood
Operations Manager
nick.wood@goautoplus.com
920-676-7529

Wisconsin Automotive Publishing LLC
AutoPlus/Max, Auto Gazette & BullsEye Distribution

awesome tech support team, they teach you how to edit everything yourself and NO request is too custom for them. I haev thrown a lot at them and they never complain or act as if I'm a bother, etc. They are appreciative and have an attitude of gratitude. we were with Cobalt before and they barely knew what SEO meant compared to DealerFire. We now have a 'turn on a dime' small company coupled with established big company-like results at a very fair price. highly recommend Matt Cole, he has been our sales rep and has stayed involved for months now after we've signed up to make sure we are getting everything we need and even recommending great ideas/changes to consistently improve our sites. his personal cell is ALWAYS on and he doesnt know what 'work hours' means. a true hardworking hungry professional that loves what he does and has the team to back it up and execute!

awesome tech support team, they teach you how to edit everything yourself and NO request is too custom for them. I haev thrown a lot at them and they never complain or act as if I'm a bother, etc. They are appreciative and have an attitude of gratitude. we were with Cobalt before and they barely knew what SEO meant compared to DealerFire. We now have a 'turn on a dime' small company coupled with established big company-like results at a very fair price. highly recommend Matt Cole, he has been our sales rep and has stayed involved for months now after we've signed up to make sure we are getting everything we need and even recommending great ideas/changes to consistently improve our sites. his personal cell is ALWAYS on and he doesnt know what 'work hours' means. a true hardworking hungry professional that loves what he does and has the team to back it up and execute!

Here's the report. Sorry for the last link as it wants you to log in:
http://www.slideshare.net/jchura/top-100-rankings...