Looking at the auction, I see a systemic situation here- a laissez-faire attitude which is underlined by their complete inattention to the auction while changing the buy it now price and by the photos. Look at the quality. I have seen better photos of used stereo equipment than what these folks used to list a $70k+ vehicle. I would think they would break down and get at least a 1-2 megapixel camera for their photos. On top of that is the arrogance of the manager laughing at the customer, thinking they are above the law. Too common.

The thing that really irritates from an eBay standpoint me is too often, I have been on the other end of one of these auctions. In September alone I had 14 vehicles "sell" on eBay, and for one reason or another, 5 were not delivered. What recourse do I have as a dealer on those 5 deadbeat bidders? NONE. eBay needs to step up and support the businesses listing items and I think they have taken a step forward with their new feedback policies.

Wow Greg. I just finished reading every post since page 91. Now that I know the Husker group is part of a larger group, a group I have a lot of respect for, I'm even more torn. I hope this whole thing gets cleared up soon.

Maybe my little voice is meaningless in the whole scheme of things, but I think a level-headed representative of the dealership should post a public statement in every area they can. There obviously is another side to the story, but the masses aren't hearing it. With the other side of the story made as public as it can be made, I think it will calm people down.

I also noticed someone posted a link to this article in that M3 forum thread - very cool! It looks like a few of the participants like some of the things being said on Dealer Refresh!

Folks, it's not over yet. Hukster has brought in a new lawyer to send a naster letter. Take a look at page 91.

"WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON" - This leaves them a little room (very little room) if things progressed through the court systems, however attorney fees, court costs, and most importantly the future business that will be lost by the dealership will cost a lot more than eating the $10k short term loss. At this point it's probably too late for them to make it right no matter what happens. Gone are the days where a dealer's worst fear is buyer's remorse - these days an isolated incident like this can sink a dealership.

Alex,

I am only new/uninitiated with respect to posting auctions. I use
eBay irregularly ... and then typically look for items that are being
overlooked by others due to substansive typos. I once got a heck
of a deal because nobody else happened to notice a Garmin GPS
that was posted as "Garmen GP S". Frankly; I was surprised when
the seller delivered without so much as a whimper.

I suspect that Husker did not get any bidding because prospective
M3 buyers never thought to look in "BMW Other".

Here is the latest news from bmwblog:


Fil keeps digging himself a deeper hole.

Doug - you may say you're unfamiliar witheBay, but I think you picked up plenty for someone new to eBay. It wasn't a screen shot - the eBay listing link in this initial posting is the actual eBay listing. Yes, it is strange they listed it under "Other", but I think that is a setup fault in the eBay listing vendor they're working with. You have to manually key-in "NO RESERVE", so that was definitely done intentionally....unless their eBay listing vendor has a feature that does this automatically?

I hope this helps to affirm your assumptions.

I am unfamiliar with the nuances of posting eBay auctions; so this
may be an uninformed question. Please be gentle. I am trying to
learn from their mistake.

In reviewing Husker's ad, it seems that they listed the M3 in
"BMW Other" Correct? Incorrect? If I am correct; it strikes me as
an odd listing choice for a high-demand, boutique vehicle.

Unless the screen-shot on M3 has been faked, doing it as a No
Reserve auction is certainly outside my comfort envelope - but
certainly a way to spark attention. Bragging about "NO RESERVE"
on the [Buy It Now] button certainly complicates the "mistake"
defense.

I hope my assumptions are faulty. Anyone able to explain the
nuances of eBay posting to the uninitated?

Well done Jeff and Alex, you have opened a closet door that needed to be open to fresh air and sunshine. When we can expose and bring to light these practices, police our industry and work to make it known not all industry members practice these devious methods our industry will have a better reputation.

Is this new? Reputation management, dealer management/principals, dealers are going to have to be paying attention to it more and more. What is this statement telling us? I thought that reputation management was something we all do to the best of our ability. Something we were taught by our parents as children. I guess the reverse is also true some children were taught to take advantage and mislead people to have the edge.

Reminds me of the Father in the movie Matilda, my daughter and I saw this together. At 7 years of age she could see the “slime” in the characters of the “dirt ball” parents. She looked up at me and said do people really act that way dad?

There will always be extenuating circumstances however even then we need to do what we need to do to make it right. There is a Chinese saying "if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got."

A customer wanting to hold you to a misprint or erroneously posted price is a case by case issue the dealer or business must address. However when it is blatant and happens consistently (BBB Files) over time there is an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. BMW Corporate should be more diligent.

One of the reasons for eBay’s success up to this point is they have tried to be diligent on maintaining their reputation as a safe, reputable market place to do business for both sellers and buyers.

This one case made the Internet as all the planets were lined up properly. This issue in various ways comes up often every day across the country and this is a reason many consumers are wary of dealing with dealerships and they have the reputation they have.

I remember calling a dealer in Rhode Island, ordering a vehicle for a client in November of 2007. He did not have his new inventory on line and I went to the OEM site, punched in the zip code and viewed the information, there were three dealers within the area. I called from out of state the 800 number which did not work from out of state and there was no other contact number. I created a yahoo email account and sent in the VIN # and made an offer based on my knowledge of the prices, cash deal, no trade. I received 6 emails, none of which acknowledged my offer the first day, 2nd day I received 8 more. All emails sending me information on warranty deals, insurance, walk-arounds, etc etc; basically junk. I found the local number via Google and called the manager and asked what in the world he was doing. He claimed he did not know where the emails were coming from and expressed ignorance, ok your ignorant of what is going on what are you going to do?

I placed a call into the OEM Corporate Office and spoke with the manager of the NE dealers, explained the issue. To his credit he contacted the dealer and CC’d me. I ordered the vehicle for my client from a competitor of his with an explanation of why he was getting the business and CC’d my client on all the correspondence.

We should encourage more customers in the industry to post the negative experiences as well as encourage them to post the great experiences they have. Each OEM should have a site where the consumers can post their experiences on dealerships they deal with. Encourage them to go to properly monitored sites and express their thoughts and views. Like BBB and CR this will give consumers a chance to work with legitimate business that believe and practice “reputation management.”

Classy handling of a touchy subject. Good job.

I'll add a fifth item to your list of do-not's:

5) Do not leave voice mails bragging that you will prevail because
you are part of a multi-billion dollar dealer group. Leave only
your name, company name, date, time & contact info.

Very interesting post Alex and Jeff.
I think the lesson is a simple one and that is that sometimes no matter how upset you are with a customer wanting to hold you to a misprint or erroneously posted price, you need to consider what the ramifications are to the dealership reputation and future sales (or lost sales for that matter)

I wrote an article a few months back on "releasing the ego" to win more sales and this is exactly one such case. Dealers need to become smarter at their internal marketing and they need to better understand that customers have unlimited ability to expose situations now more than ever before. This applies to not only internet postings or advertising in papers and TV it but also their behavior at the store on the showroom floor. Consumers are now more inclined to "tell the world" about a bad experience since they know it costs them nothing and gives them a sense of "equalizing" the playing field.

This also relates to reputation management and dealers are going to have to be paying attention to it more and more since one bad experience can quickly get out of control like the one you have posted.

It may also come down to communicating with your customer and understanding both sides better. This customer put a lot of effort into making that video and I'm sure they would have loved an excuse not to have had to do that.

Mark Bonfigli
President, CEO
Dealer.com, Inc

Eric - from what I can tell, on that the M3 forum, there was some legal muscle flexing that enticed BMW of Lincoln to honor the price. It sounds like another BMW store stepped up to the plate to help with the delivery closer to the winning bidder's home!

Brian - thanks. I wouldn't let this little thing upset your eBay plans. Just be careful when you list a car - learn from their mistake.

by the way I see why you guys were torn about making this post, I thought about the same thing before my post but I think you all put together a classy post that shows your true intention of learning from another dealers mistake.

So is ebay worth the trouble? From personal experience I think the number is higher on the flipside, buyers not paying for the car they won on ebay vs the screwup @ cornville BMW. Looks like a quick risk vs reward assessment will show that ebay is no place to play, I am taking my ball and going home. This is also a very good example of why a strong online reputation is very important and not to be taken lightly.

This is known as "AMC" or "All Mistakes Combined". As valuable as the web can work for a dealer it can certainly work against one if the hand of cards dealt is not properly played.

So, did they sell the guy his BMW?

Hi Angela,

Clarify? 200 total a month new and used combined or...

Here is what a big problem that still exists, not fully validating o elevating the position of ISM to the second in a chain of command.

Nobody seems to talk about it but the biggest threat in the auto monarch to the GM and GSM is the ISM.

Why? Smarter and get's the techonology and how it applies to selling vehicles.

I would bet to say that more authority is given to the FSM than the ISM. That's just crazy in todays business.

How many ISM have authority over working deals?

My guess? 8 out of 10 UCM have NO clue of e-selling but make 100-200-300k a year. It's a case of the dog waging the tail.

Make a % point maybe on the back because of buy rate being lower than the consumer can get walking into the bank...whoopee.

Sorry FSM's I don't mean to be little just trying to make a point here.

Most FSM's that I know make WELL over 100k for about 60-100 booked deals or so a month.

So my rule is minimul $50/car sold is a good start.

Heck, buyers make 100-250 per car to buy inventory, ridiculus and know of people making 200k.

Bottom line is that I feel and ISM should be paid also on a % of monthly net profit or gross that is pretty standard for a sales manager's position.

About the ISM pay scales. Are you refering to an ISM that sells the vehicles as well as manage the department? Or just responding to leads and selling the vehicles? Which do you think should be making 100K or more per year?
With the many differnt roles that ISM's have depending on the dealership-I think it is tough to nail down a fair payplan.
I have been an ISM for 7 years and not making 100K. I dont sell the vehicle myself anymore, but manage the department in a store that sells about 200 vehicles per month. Any input is much appreciated.

WOW! I love that Pete likes to rattle and stir things up too!!!! I am actually stradling both sides of the fence!

I am glad everbody agrees selling is about salesmanship but for the "blissful" it is about having a market value based pay plan and value earnings for the sales work that is required.

That is wonderful that people enjoy the industry so did I, most of the time.

So you don't have a degree so you are less valuable than say a software or pharma salesperson? but work 12 hour days and weekends.

I know of those other industries and have friends in them and I will tell you auto sales requires more ability and hard work so where is the pay?

Some people might want to work below scale but I never did.
Unfortunately it took 7 dealers in 20 years but I always made sure I was at 35% and never made less than over 100k.

The one thing that was forgotten to be mentioned is that yes you have to be a pro but to be the best but auto sales requires many sacrifices that one should be compensated for other than by commission only.

I always took most of my customers with me. So when the dealer principle would call and complain, I would always correct them in saying that they are MY customers and I am the one who has the relationship.

Cut the percentage, make me pay more for health insurance, axe the demo program, etc...I looked out for me and never looking back.

The largest percentage of autosales rep's make less than $26,000 per year. I know it shows higher but once you take out the top 2% of highline rep's over 100k that is what it is.

Most don't even know of the effort in past to be unionized and do you know why? I will save that for another time.

For anybody out there that is an ISM at a store that sell 150+ cars
month and not making 100k/yr your getting shorted.

If you have less than say 5 years in the business and an ISM your probably working too cheap(but definitely can be qualified, so don't take offense).

Thanks to all and I love to rattle things up to make this blog fun and usefull

"customer calling and walking through the door is the most likely to buy?"

lol - and the majoity of the time when they DO buy, they are really an "under-cover" internet shopper!

My experience, which most of the people in our store refuse to accept regardless of the stats: the WORSE up is the fresh un-announced walk-up who really WAS a drive-by (not someone who shopped the net first - or called the day before). Yet this is the target market that 95% of a dealerships effort is based around! The staff will ignore the phones (and their email) to race to every warm body that shows up..

??? I can't even respond to this one. The "USER NAME" "Domestic Mini Deal" says it all! "DOOMestic" Mini Deal, maybe! If you're living on "Mini Commissions" there's no wonder you can't afford to ration aka "SAVINGS". Didn't know "savings" was a new concept! Anyone else? Clearly some people see the cup as half full. It is attitudes like this that are cancerous in our industry. It is my sincere hope to combat the typical stereotype of the "Car Salesman" while providing good products and services and make one hell of a living doing it! Maybe you should consider another industry? Good Luck Mr. Doom & Gloom!!

"...ration money" yeah, there's a great testimony to attract better sales people to the industry.

Yikes Brian - put the razor down!

I'm not yet 22 and started in the industry last May. As the ISM of my Nissan dealership, I find each day exciting and fresh. I'm grateful I'm compensated as well as I am, and I'm having fun doing it.

I have always tackled change aggressively, and I look forward to the next swing in the business. Several above posters are correct: It's all about salesmanship. If you treat your customers with fairness and professionalism you are likely to earn their business. Happy selling everyone.

Dealer Refresh rocks!