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Feb 16, 2011

@Joe Pistell,

If that was "hardened by fire" you used a Birthday candle. Why didn't you bring the HellFire and Volcano plumes like you did with Lightnup?

Feb 16, 2011

I really like your logic Joe, with the caveat that Places does need some form of lead tracking if you are paying for Local SEO management. We provide that to all the dealers we work with through a combination of a) Google Place Page Impression + Action Reporting b) Google Analytics Goal Reports c) Call Tracking via Dynamic Javascript.

joe.pistell · Feb 16, 2011

Stephen, You're a vendor, you track phone calls for a living, so I can understand how tracking every call makes sense to you. But... IMO, your core product is not to track calls, so much as it's your ability to improve dealers decision making. Based on that, I'll challenge you on a few fronts.

I see little need track calls made from Google Places for 2 reasons.

#1). It costs us next to nothing to use it.
#2). Free= No need to measure against another platform to choose one over the other.

Ok.. If it's free, then I have little to worry about. But, on the other hand, the ability to track the call counts and call quality of the referrals to my website from Google Places, now you've got my attention!

Google Places has 2 different visitors that parallel the old phone books, White pages & Yellow pages. The real opportunity in Google Places is not it's "white pages" traffic, it's from the "yellow pages" like traffic (white pages = dealer name, where as "Used Trucks" is a yellow pages like request). The competition for these Yellow Pages like Google Places SERPs is very strong, few dealers make it onto the maps and to those that do make it, have no idea how they got there, yet, it's a very very rich source of income for them. Lastly, trying to insert tracking numbers into Google Places could ruin your position or make you invisible for ...gulp... months & months. It's possible it could take you years to re-gain that 3-6 months of lost revenue.

My $0.02
Dealers should be working with Local SEO experts like Dev Beasu to optimize their Google Places visibility and they should track this investment with Stephen's Century Interactive!

p.s. Welcome to Dealer Refresh Stephen, you're now "hardened by fire"

joe.pistell · Feb 16, 2011

Stephen, You're a vendor, you track phone calls for a living, so I can understand how tracking every call makes sense to you. But... IMO, your core product is not to track calls, so much as it's your ability to improve dealers decision making. Based on that, I'll challenge you on a few fronts.

I see little need track calls made from Google Places for 2 reasons.

#1). It costs us next to nothing to use it.
#2). Free= No need to measure against another platform to choose one over the other.

Ok.. If it's free, then I have little to worry about. But, on the other hand, the ability to track the call counts and call quality of the referrals to my website from Google Places, now you've got my attention!

Google Places has 2 different visitors that parallel the old phone books, White pages & Yellow pages. The real opportunity in Google Places is not it's "white pages" traffic, it's from the "yellow pages" like traffic (white pages = dealer name, where as "Used Trucks" is a yellow pages like request). The competition for these Yellow Pages like Google Places SERPs is very strong, few dealers make it onto the maps and to those that do make it, have no idea how they got there, yet, it's a very very rich source of income for them. Lastly, trying to insert tracking numbers into Google Places could ruin your position or make you invisible for ...gulp... months & months. It's possible it could take you years to re-gain that 3-6 months of lost revenue.

My $0.02
Dealers should be working with Local SEO experts like Dev Beasu to optimize their Google Places visibility and they should track this investment with Stephen's Century Interactive!

p.s. Welcome to Dealer Refresh Stephen, you're now "hardened by fire"

Feb 16, 2011

Hey Stephen - Nice to meet you too. The workaround you're suggesting is good for the long run but does cause some pretty harsh short term pain in the rankings. Effectively, a dealer would need to use the call tracking # in their Places profile and rebuild or edit any existing citation data they have to get the records in order. Even after building new citations or editing existing ones, we've seen Places take up to 3 months to adjust to the new data.

It's a double-edged sword for the first 6 months or so of undertaking a call tracking # in your places profile.

1) The major pro is that you know where your leads are coming from.

2) The major con is that if you depend on search engines for the majority of your leads, a loss in rankings could result in less overall calls than before using a call tracking #.

Feb 16, 2011

The only way around the problem of calls coming from places itself is to start using a trackable local phone number from the start, similar to those offered by RingCentral or Grasshopper. Then build citation data around this new phone number and try to close the gap between calls from places alone and calls from your javascript tracking solution. This is only possible if your front desk monitors the source of the calls.

Feb 16, 2011

Thanks for weighing in, Dev, and nice to meet you. Yes, we absolutely do use the smart JavaScript for displaying dynamic phone numbers on the dealer's *website*, which works wonderfully for a number of reasons, including those laid out here Centuryinteractive: Unleashing the Future of Marketing Today

As far as Google Places goes, it's a best practice to set up the entry with the actual NAP (name, address, phone). Ok, then what?! The listing is established and calls start rolling in. This is the point when our clients swap the number to a local tracking number (i.e. after the Places entry has been created and validated).

We're getting past the point where businesses are just starting to set up their Places entry. Most already have. I'm asserting that the act of taking your existing Places entry and swapping in a local tracking number is a calculated risk many dealers have taken.

Of course, the world can change tomorrow, but so far, these dealers are pleased with the combined benefit of Google Places phone tracking and acceptable findability on the Map.

From a philosophical standpoint, I believe that Google's intention is to make sure you have a physical presence where you say you do. Since that is the case in these examples, we haven't seen any indication of a witch hunt if the phone number changes in Places.

An SEO specialist will never endorse the practice of putting a trackable phone number in Google Places, but I think it's okay to look at the dealer's operational needs in a balanced way (rather than isolating just SEO). As such, weighing the benefits of tracking calls from a significant lead source (Places) against the risks of upsetting Google is something that should be on the table for consideration.

Feb 16, 2011

Dev - if you place javascript on your website, to get around a tracking number on your places page, how do you account for the people calling from the phone number listed on your Google Places page that don't visit your website?

Feb 15, 2011

Jeff Kershner asked me to weigh in on the topic of using Call Tracking #'s in one's Google Places profile, and I'm happy to help where I can:

As a Local Search Expert who devotes a lot of time to testing local search ranking factors, I can definitely attest to the fact that it is NOT a good idea to use call tracking numbers in your Places listing.

I understand where Stephen is coming from though, as an advocate of call tracking myself. However, there's a better way to do it.

If you use a smart javascript on your dealer site, then you can configure it to auto-replace your main phone # with a tracking phone number IF AND ONLY IF the referring traffic source happens to be Google.com. This way you will know exactly how many calls you are getting off Google or any other search engine or any other website for that matter. The kicker is that you get to get all that juicy data without compromising or fragmenting your Place page citations.

Just to be clear, the reason having your REAL phone # in your Places listing is important is because Google Places uses 3 data points at the very minimum to 'anchor' your business as a distinct entity. These are the NAP or Name, Address, Phone #. Joe's done a great job at demonstrating how to represent the NAP across the web.

If y'all have anymore questions, please feel free to post here as I'm following this comment thread.

Feb 15, 2011

I'm not in charge of their places pages anymore. I know they're struggling with those pages right now. When I was there I switched back and forth between local and tracking 8xx numbers. As long as the numbers matched Google didn't have any issues.

stevecravens · Feb 15, 2011

I just did a local search for Checkered Flag in Virginia Beach and noticed a store (Scion) using an 866 i.e. Toll-Free number in the Google Places entry, which even I don't recommend! Perhaps that has something to do with it. Also, were you using some type of third party application to update Google Places in bulk? I've worked on this some myself and had no problems changing the phone number field to a *local* tracking number.

Feb 15, 2011

Thanks for the response Stephen. Unless something with Google Places recently changed, it has been my experience that the phone number matching is the quickest way to get things straight and matching.

I used to place tracking numbers all over the place, at Checkered Flag, and it totally messed our Google Places pages up. As soon as I matched the phone numbers across the review sites, Google Places, and our store landing pages Google linked everything up.

I've only been out of Checkered Flag for a little over 7 months - did something drastic change in that time I'm not aware of?

DennisGalbraith · Feb 15, 2011

Outstanding input Joe!

The general point here is that measurement of consumer activity cannot be captured at the expense of being found by consumers. I'll go so far as to say if you know you are buying a listings service at $0.30 per VDP and your break-even is $1.00 per VDP, then you don't really need to measure how many phone calls you receive from that service.

Tracking chats and emails is painless to the customer-retailer relationship. Tracking phone calls is not. Ideally, you would want every customer to have your one and only phone number in their phone systems. It's okay to break away from that with a tracking number, but it better be information you can profit from and not just nice to have.

stevecravens · Feb 15, 2011

Hi Alex, and thank you for reading the post. My point was more that call tracking service isn't some mythical force that can only be procured in conjunction with CRM, web development, media buying etc. I was highlighting how the business itself can own the numbers if it wants. That being said, there's no denying, as you point out, the immense value of a vendor who can do it all.

Feb 15, 2011

I disagree to a certain extent with #3. If you can get something from a vendor that gives you a leg up over the other call tracking services out there whether it's because it just works better with their product (better reporting) or they offer something you can't really get anywhere else, I think going through the vendor is worthwhile.

For example, what if you could tie salesperson's name, customer's name, and the specific piece of inventory the customer was calling about together and automatically kick that info into your CRM? Pardon the advertisement, but we can do that for a few different websites.

stevecravens · Feb 15, 2011

Thank you for reading the post, Ryan. From a very high level, there's a balance that must be struck. What if takes a report that says "10% of calls come from Google Places" before a dealer will lift a finger to optimize his Places page with pictures, hours of operation, customer reviews etc. If the dealer doesn't even appreciate Google Places in the first place and has a lackluster profile, isn't that worse than a rank of "C" versus "B" in the Map but having an engaging profile? I'm just suggesting that in many cases, knowing with certainty that Google Places deliver x% of your call volume resonates with business managers more so than the theoretical risks posed on the margin.

Feb 15, 2011

Hmmm.... fascinating possibilities Stephen! Excellent info, I hope you're right! I'll read it up asap!

stevecravens · Feb 15, 2011

And thank you, Alex and Jeff, for providing a stellar forum for discourse. We need more of it! Google's provides rules of the road to prevent abuse. If your Google Listing profile is who you say you are, in the physical address you're representing, I don't believe it's Google's will to harm your standing. Furthermore, I've never seen any test results that would suggest otherwise. My view of the bottom line is that a meaningful amount of traffic comes from listings sites, and it's worth knowing how it breaks out. This knowledge allows dealers to continuously go up the funnel to further optimize their marketing budgets.

stevecravens · Feb 15, 2011

Thank you for the impassioned response, Joe, and it's emblematic of the vibrancy of the DR forum! I'm not suggesting using toll-frees, but rather placing *local tracking numbers* in your Google Places and other listings. Google's intention is not to disallow phone response measurement, but rather to make sure you're not creating a ghost presence in metros across the country.

We have users all the time, every day put *local* tracking numbers in each listing site and therefore know with certainty how the phone lead pie breaks out. We monitor our clients campaigns closely and have never noticed any demonstrable harm.

I'm not saying the practice doesn't come without risks, but just like driving a car to work every day in the morning, the benefits of tracking far outweigh the potential downside. To read more, here's a post I wrote on the topic: http://www.centuryinteractive.com/you-really-can-...

Feb 15, 2011

Phone numbers is but one part of the business record. For the highest quality scores, not only do phone numbers need to match, ALL records must match... letter perfect! Name, address, phone numbers & zips. Start at your business certificate filing at your local government level, then move that perfect info everywhere. Make sure the white pages has your info aligned, everything must be just right.

One of my Examples:
Sun Chevy (nope)
Sun Chevrolet (better)
Sun Chevrolet Inc. (almost)
Sun Chevrolet, Inc. (has comma now it's perfect!)

Take that letter perfect info and push it everywhere!
Here it is on this store's landing page: http://www.usedcarking.com/SunChevroletInc/

Sun Chevrolet, Inc.
104 West Genesee St. Chittenango, NY 13037
(315) 687-7231

What you see above Google calls a "citation". A citation is the complete business record. For the best possible score, YOU NEED IT ALL, LETTER PERFECT and COPIED EVERYWHERE. Local SEO's believe that the MORE citations you have the more authority your local listing has. This only works if your info matches everywhere.

ryan.leslie · Feb 15, 2011

Alex stole my thunder, numbers must match to get the data to flow reliably. One other quick note on this though. If you do decide to change the contact info on your places page it will take Google 4-6 weeks to accurately scrape and display review content on your places page. Decide what you want to do and stick with it. If you change your mind every 4 weeks, you'll never have review data post.

Feb 15, 2011

Thanks for writing this article Stephen - definitely brings to light quite a few things many are puzzled by.

I do have to echo on a bit of what Joe is saying on the first point as it relates to Google Places. One of the key things Google uses to match your business to your places page and all those reputation websites is a phone number. When you have a differing phone number on these various sites Google doesn't link them together.

For Example: If you're paying for DealerRater, you should have the same number on your DealerRater page, your Google Places page, and your website.

It is up to you whether the customer experience or your ability to track things is more important.

Feb 15, 2011

Woa Stephen! Wow, you really need to re-think comment #1, you ask:

"...Can I put a tracking number in my Google Places (Maps, Local Listings, 7-pack, whatever your name for it is) entry?"

I about fell out of my chair when you replied:

"...You absolutely can. SEO bloggers publish theories to the contrary, but I’ve never seen a local merchant displeased with using a tracking number in Google Places...."

Gulp! A bold ASSUMPTION on your part Stephen, but, in this example only, I'll step up and WARN Dealer Refresh readers that (from my seat) this is flawed advice with a great deal of risk..

DO NOT USE TOLL FREE NUMBERS IN GOOGLE PLACES (aka Google Local).

First, there are 2 types of traffic from Google Places.
#1). Your business name (i.e. a phone book search)
#2). A general product search (i.e. "used cars for sale")
Both searches fire off the Google Maps results (with push pins).

In example #1, the "white pages" phone book request, there is little competition and using a toll free number should not impact the Dealer from being seen.

but...

Example #2 is like a "yellow pages" phone book request and the competition is far greater and more difficult for Google to figure out how to reward the winners. In this example, this is where having a toll free number on your google places listing can result in a total FAIL.

My stores have many listing challenges and my Google Places ranking is far from perfect, yet, it's "yellow pages results" sends me several hundred shoppers per month... FREE. Getting strong local listings can make a huge impact on traffic to a website (which trickles down to sales). It's so important that over the years, I have a few hundred hours of research into Google Places. I've hired the best consultants in the biz to assist me along the way and read their blogs often.

Getting ranked on Google Local is not black or white... not win or lose, it's not yes or no, businesses are listed on a sliding scale of rank. Google looks for all kinds of "quality signals" to verify the businesses that go back all the way to the DBA's and telco white pages. Generally speaking, The more matches it finds the better quality.

Google and ALL of the Local Search Community will recommend that you don't use Toll Free numbers in Google's Place (local) listings.

--Google Places Quality Guidelines--:
Phone: Provide a phone number that connects to your individual business location as directly as possible.
* Use a local phone number instead of a call center number whenever possible. http://www.google.com/support/places/bin/answer.p...

--2010 Local Search Ranking Factors--
SEE:
*Quality of Citations from Major Data Providers + IYP Portals
*Including Local Area Code Phone Number on Places Landing Page http://www.davidmihm.com/local-search-ranking-fac...

Summary: If you're looking to get your business onto the 7pack for yellow-pages like listings (i.e. "car dealer near city, state"), or, if your business is already in the 7pack map listings and you don't want to risk falling off the 7 pack, DONT USE A TOLL FREE NUMBER.

TEST YOUR DEALERSHIP NOW: Moz Local - Your All-In-One local SEO tool and software

Feb 14, 2011

Car Dealer Call Tracking FAQ's

With so much buzz in the automotive world about what marketing tools are now at your disposal, I feel I owe it to the DealerRefresh community to share some of the insights on the tool I know best – call tracking.

DealerRefresh readers are entrepreneurs. We don’t get out bed for general trends, but rather for insights that allow us to take action right now to improve our sales and marketing performance. As such, I put together this list of “what’s going on right now” topics in call tracking that may be just the nugget to help you make a more informed decision on how to implement a new measurement tool.

1. Can I put a tracking number in my Google Places (Maps, Local Listings, 7-pack, whatever your name for it is) entry?

You absolutely can. SEO bloggers publish theories to the contrary, but I’ve never seen a local merchant displeased with using a tracking number in Google Places. Let’s think about the big picture; if a meaningful amount of calls are coming from a particular listing site, you need to know about it. And it’s not just Google. Cars.com, AutoTrader, EveryCarListed etc are all asking for a greater percentage of your budget. Some of these are, in fact, worthy of upgrading to the premium package. Know which ones you should be serious about.

2. What’s the deal with keyword-level tracking? Wait, organic too?

Yes, you can see search queries from callers from your website who clicked on an organic link as well. The “keyword-level call tracking” service most commonly offered by call tracking vendors shows a unique phone number just for paid click visits. While this is useful, the preferred way to track calls from your website is to capture every referring source (PPC, organic, listing site referral, email and display). Intellectually, it’s more honest to take a holistic approach to call tracking rather than isolate and over- spotlight one particular lead source.

3. Can I get my own numbers?

I’m tired of people who are trying to sell me stuff owning the numbers. All things being equal, the publisher (directory site, website company, newspaper etc.) will own the numbers and use it as a churn reduction tool. Hey, they introduced you to the idea of call tracking, right? While this is part of doing business, it doesn’t have to be that way. You can have access to your own inventory of tracking lines, to add / cancel as you wish. It’s just a matter of opening your own account with a car dealer call tracking service provider.

4. Can I get call data to integrate with Application X?

I saved the most commonly asked question for last, “Do you integrate with Google Analytics?” For better or worse, Google doesn’t have an inbound API, so the integration is crude and less than ideal. Call counts are the extent of it, which is why I would suggest you choose the call tracking provider with a robust analytics package. Get the most out of what call tracking specialists can offer first, and then decide if a third-party integration will provide the missing piece (if there even is a missing piece). There are providers who can break out phone calls from web sessions in a compelling fashion. However, if you are set on an AdWords integration, your best bet will be via a PPC management platform like Marin, Clickable or Acquisio, each of whom integrates call data.

My goal each day is to help dealers fit technology into their own unique set of operations. I’m on the front lines of receiving feedback from dealers while simultaneously pushing and testing development realities in-house to find the optimal balance. Point being, there’s lots of innovation and compromise I live and die by everyday. Enough, at least, to have perspective on what will move the needle versus what’s yet another meaningless feature.

May 17, 2011

If lawsuits were the outcome of this, those take time to formulate. If it was a future protective/preventative measure, then we may never hear anymore about it.

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