Seriously - I'm just a guy trying to figure out this crazy business just like the rest of you... I work at a car dealership and my views correspond to my current position. I don't know Mike Roscoe personally and he has never done anything for me or against me that I am aware of - so he gets a pass at this point.

I'm a huge fan of Hamilton, Kershner, Paglia, Rucker, Miltsch, Garvin, Banks, Brooks, et al. I'm NOT a fan of a great many more, but that's just me. The point is that we are ALL going to piss SOME of us off at some point. We just aren't always ALL going to get along. If we did, we wouldn't be as good as we are at what we do.

For the most part, our passion defines us. I love this community. I love this business. I would go to battle with a great many of you. Let's all agree to disagree (or agree) and move on. Let's get back to what makes this a great place to connect and get back to moving the needle and giving and learning from each other.

Rumors, name-calling, and personal attacks aren't going to get any of us anywhere...

Just sayin'

OMG - Group Hug???

@Ralph
No need to apologize because I did get a kick out of it but thank you anyway. You showed me your knowledge about social media and displaying true transparency and letting me know where I stand with you and for that you have my respect. You now have given me a few more nicknames around the office and for that I am so grateful.

Layton,

I apologize for ranting and raving in what I had intended to be some sort of sideways compliment. My post was in bad taste and I aplogize for my poor choice of words. The primary message I was trying to communicate was one of support for your comments and for your credibility... Obviously, the disparaging color commentary detracted from my comment's objective. I incorrectly assumed you would enjoy the statement of agreement from someone you have criticized so much in the past. Although I thought you would take it differently, I was wrong, and I apologize for offending you.

Wow Ralph you have some balls good to see that! I am glad to see that you are in the anti-Layton camp which I am sure there are more people out there as well. Whining bitch...good one! Sorry to see someone of your stature resort to such base comments on a very public board.

I wanted to chime in just one more time... Regarding Layton Judd. If anybody thinks that Layton Judd expressed an opinion because he wanted to "brown-nose" or be perceived as politically correct, then you have not seen Layton's decidedly un-PC activities eslewhere. I do not particularly care for Mr. Judd, there was a time when I thought he seemed like a decent guy, and then he turned into a whining b*&ch when he left Izmocars. That and a few underhanded moves puts me on the decidedly NOT A FAN of Layton side of the field. However, not only do I believe what he posted to be how he truly sees things, but it also pains me to realize that I actually agree with his commentary about Roscoe, Digital Dealer and the whole conference rumors thing. In fact, seeing that Layton was apparently in an odd sort of way sticking up for Roscoe almost made me want to climb aboard the Roscoe bashing bus... But, alas, Layton is just not good enough to change my opinion on much of anything, except perhaps the viability of North Carolina!

But on this subject, that whiny sniveling wench and I agree. Our industry needs more focus on Digital Marketing, not less... Having multiple conferences and strong competition between them for hosting the best speakers and producing the best agendas is in all of our best interests...

Sheesh... I hate it when I agree with something put forth by somebody like Layton Judd! But, he has the right perspective in what he posted here, and I know from personal first hand experience that he is not afraid to post anything he is thinking about or actually believes.

This, of course, is my own personal opinion and has no connection with, and is not endorsed by my current, previous or future employers.

Sorry guys, you can spin this 16 ways, but this behavior from a leader is unacceptable.

For every brave soul like Len Critcher that dares to make public their dealings with "The Dictator", there are ten others that are in the wings remaining silent.

I'm not walking around DD worrying if my discussions are acceptable. I'm not walking around DD worrying if the school principal is in the room.

We all go to these events for networking opportunities. If Mr Roscoe considers un-endorsed networking a threat... then I'm not walking around DD. If in his reply, Mr Roscoe has to define what he considers un-endorsed networking is... then I'm not walking around DD.

Clearly, he's invested the time and energy to grow his business, now its time to grow his business plan. He needs to work more angles to make his tent larger, not smaller. All I see is the signature of a control-freak whose lack of confidence in others will put a cement ceiling on his growth.

@Ralph,

What a great, genuine post from you.

Your comments bring more clarity & sense to an issue that can simply be reduced to a few people being emotional & passionate.

Gates, Wozniak, Ellison, Branson, Zuckerberg, et al. They didn't rise to their ivory towers without stepping on a few toes. (read: pissing off a ton of people)

Here's to a future trophy simply titled: “Arrogant Pricks Club”

I have been enjoying this post and the comments for too many reasons to list, but then Jon Groenig had to go and call me an "Arrogant Prick"! I really DID laugh out loud... Jon, thanks for the honorable mention, I've missed seeing you for a couple of years and you know that same conference you mentioned is where I met Tim Jennings.

It took me 3 years to get the deal closed, but I was successful in recruiting Tim to work on my team at ADP Digital Marketing last month. What connects the dots? That ol' rascal himself... Mike Roscoe.

I have a ton of respect for Mike Roscoe, Jared Hamilton and Jeff Kershner because, like them, having poured a lot of my time and energy into publishing, in my case the ADM Professional Community, I know what it is like to build up a base of readers, participants and people who contribute good content. It's a lot of hard work and all four of us have pissed off a few people along the way.

I am certain that there is someone out there who would nominate each of the four of us to the "Arrogant Pricks Club". Jon already covered my nomination (I love you, Jon!), and even if you can't find anyone to nominate the Oprah Winfrey of the car business and best politician amongst the four of us, Jared Hamilton, then I would step up to do so... Because even Mr. Nicey-Nicey can be an Arrogant Prick in his own sweet ass Utah style that just makes it a lot harder to detect than Mike Roscoe's in your face "All In" way of dealing with stuff...

One thing about Roscoe that I have learned to appreciate... You never have to guess what he is thinking or plans to do. He will tell you and make no bones about speaking the truth even if the truth is not what you want to hear. Whether the readers of this post like Roscoe's style or not, it is who he is and he never tries to pretend he is something else.

Since I happen to be really poor at the politically correct skills game, I have learned to appreciate Mike's integrity and full disclosure way of doing business.

Think about it... He could be more like a weasel and less like the leader he actually is by simply not saying a word to any of the people who have supposedly been banned.

Then, their Speaker Applications would get passed over and he would hit them for the full Associated Industry registration fee, which is quite steep. As for vendor booths, he COULD get away with saying he has them all reserved for other suppliers due to limited booth space, and probably get away with it. But that's not Mike Roscoe's style... Like it or not, if he has a bone to pick with you, well, you will probably hear from him directly.

Maybe I am displaying some of the low-brow roots of the Boston and Buffalo Italian neighborhoods where I grew up, but I still consider Mike Roscoe to be the type of man, and business professional I respect because he will seek out who he is pissed off at and then confront that person with his issue on a direct basis.

I know about this on a first hand basis because I have personally done many things that Mike Roscoe did not like... At which point he contacts me. Yes, sometimes it is a nasty-gram email or text message or a phone call, but regardless of how, he gets in my face, we then go toe to toe and work it out.

You have never seen me send his texts and emails flying around the web... Why? Because I respect the fact that instead of talking trash about me with third parties, he contacts me directly and we work things out.

Kinda reminds me of the old neighborhood where if you had an "issue" with another guy, you went to them directly and worked it out... One way or another. Of course we had a word we used to describe the people who would talk a bunch of trash and then avoid the person they were talking trash about... It is a 5 letter word that starts with the same first letter as my last name. I will not use it on Jeff's site because of my respect for him.

So, go ahead and trash Roscoe all you want, and you'll probably try to avoid making eye contact with him as well. We know the type... I personally believe he is good enough at what he does that Digital Dealer will continue to be successful.

As for me, I will continue to attend all three; Digital Dealer, Driving Sales Executive Summit and the J. D. Power Automotive Internet Roundtable, unless Rowdy Roscoe, Hamilton the Hammer or those corporate pricks at McGraw-Hill ban me from any one of them. Or, I can no longer afford the time and money. Why? Because I learn things that help me make more money by selling more cars at all three events. Yes, I may work for a supplier, but I still earn a living by selling cars.

PS. Anything I post online DEFINITELY does NOT reflect the official position or policies of whatever company I am employed by at that moment! (unless so stated)

In the meantime, where's Charlie Vogelheim? Now THERE is a guy who has all the political talent in the world that I myself lack, and who should weigh in on this topic. Does Jared Hamilton have him locked up somewhere?

I'm telling you, that nicey-nicey routine Jared has is a disguise that masks the killer competitive instincts of the red headed Utah Slugger that hides within.

And where is Mark Dubis when you need him to chime in, especially after Ryan G. mentions Mark (I think) without stating his name.

And while I am at it, what about our host, Jeff Kershner? There's someone who has gotten in my face a couple of times for posting stuff he didn't like. But, we discussed the issues and we worked them out... Directly and not through third parties. I think Jeff would have been OK in the old neighborhood.

The conferences are all good, but none of them are perfect. Each of them have a different feel and a different agenda. I will say that I disagree with everyone who posted stuff about DSES being less vendor sales pitch than DD... Or, you simply attended the wrong workshops at Digital Dealer. To say that Kevin Frye's Digital Dealer workshop was a sales pitch is BS. To say the same thing about Shawn Raines Digital Dealer workshop is a lot more relevant, but that's why Digital Dealer has up to 7 workshops in each time slot to choose from!

Listening to Brian Pasch promote his "POD" Score at DSES was most certainly a sales pitch if there ever were one. But some people don't see that, which makes it a VERY GOOD sales pitch! There is genius to that type of approach.

None of us are without fault, and yes I saw the email that was sent to IM@CSWEB... I got a good laugh out of it because I have received messages from Roscoe when he didn't like something I wrote or did... Since he lives too far for me to walk down the street and knock on his front door, I would simply call Mike and we would discuss the issue and work it out. And, lastly... I swear it is not my imagination, but I think Mike Roscoe has actually become easier to deal with over the last two years than before. Either that, or all that direct communication has simply made it easier for Mike and I to understand each other's perspective.

I love this crazy car business and am thankful for people like Mike Roscoe, Jared Hamilton, Jeff Kershner and the like who keep us moving forward and definitely keep us from getting too complacent or bored!

Wow, I am glad Mike wrote in to clear things up. I was unable to attend the DD9 conference this year, but by the time the rumor got to me Mike had taken Jared out to the Nevada desert and buried him in a shallow grave.

Since Mike is taking so much crap on this I would like to start the I heart Mike Roscoe fan club. I was at a NADA convention a few years back and met Jasen Rice, at that time Jasen was one of the better know ISM's, he had just gotten out of internet sales and just started working for V-Auto. Since I had read several articles he had written I knew he understood the Internet side of the car business. At that particular NADA the internet side of the business was not really represented outside the the REALLY aggressive BZ booth.

After expressing my disappointment to Jasen, he took the time to walk me over the Dealer Magazine booth and introduced be to Mike Roscoe. Mike took the time to talk to me and told me about a conference he was doing a couple of months down the road that was specifically geared toward internet auto sales, it was called AAISP and was being held in Nashville. I took a look at the subjects being covered at the conference and decided I needed to attend.

Trying not to sound too sappy here, but that meeting with Mike and the conference I attended because of him was a life changing experience. I met many industry leaders at leaders at that first conference and the following ones. One of them was a guy I considered a loud mouth arrogant pr*ck that worked at Courtesy Chevrolet in Arizona. You know the funny thing about first impressions is that they are not always right, I got a chance to actually sit down and talk to this guy at the second conference, if I remember right he had moved on to ADP by that point, talk about information overload, this guy had done it all and could tell you what would work and what wouldn't, of course I am talking about my friend Ralph Paglia.

Now I could go on and on, dropping names of the whose who of the internet side of the business that are now friends and connections I have made because of Mike Roscoe and his conferences. I may be going out on a limb here but I would bet a lot of the people taking issue with Mike right now have had the same experiences I have had at his conferences, they have made a friend or connection that they would not of made without his conference.

I have gone on long enough here, but what I want to get across is that Mike has done a lot of positive things for many of us in the business and I think he should be given a little slack in this situation. OK, that's my two cents for what it is worth, but then again I probably wouldn't know about Dealerrefresh, and be writing this here if I hadn't learned about it at that first conference in Nashville.

You know what,

I think some of us, including me, are guilty of piling on Mike Roscoe here. Have I been upset with him? Hell yes. The word is really "angry".

Now after a few days of feeling well, bad, about jumping on the pile I need to clear the air as far as I am concerned. You are all my friends, so is Mike Roscoe, even though he can get me pissed rather quickly. Everyone of us involved in this scenario have either appeared on the cover or written in Digital Dealer or Dealer Magazine. Hell, if I had not been on the cover I would have never started consulting. At the end of the day can he do things different? Yes, but we all know that just ain't Roscoe either. A lot of us owe Mike for helping us with our career, allowing us to have sessions at DD even after we have had it out with him. Can he learn to play a little better in the sandbox? Yes, but that ain't Roscoe either. Hell, he has a business to run too. There is enough room in this sandbox for everybody if we are working together. If we don't, the space we have to work in shrinks quickly and gets dirty from all the BS.

This was the best Digital Dealer conference yet. I think he and Cliff did a great job. After speaking with Mike, I am apologizing and burying the hatchet here and now. We are definately cool.

All of you that know me personally understand that it is genuine, or I would not post it.

Kim Clouse

Jeff Collins- I don't even know who you are but you don't know my reputation to well if you think I am posturing, don't need to do that, been in the automotive internet industry way too long.

I think highley of Jared Hamilton and think he has many great things to say and would gladly attend his confernce as many people should. I have been involved with Mike Roscoe and his conference since the beginning and glad to see it grow. Both conferences have their place. What ever you want to call my comments on the board is up to you, but I will tell you that they are true and honest.

Holy Crap! What a storm in a teacup! Don't you wish you could get this kind of comment stream from a blog post or article?!

Loving the passion, the views, and the fact that Social Media allows us all to be able to either chime in or just observe.

I had no idea of the 'politics' between DD9 and DSES and am quite surprised that it's blurted out over a public space like this.

This is a permanent record guys, it's not going to go away, and no doubt it will be referred to many times, like an e-mail from a couple of years ago?!...

I have no allegiance to either party, but I do have an opinion. And opinions matter. Come next year, when people are either hyping the conferences, or looking for advice as to which conference would best serve their needs, they listen and act upon recommendations, just as car buyers do.

Name calling and line drawing and posturing can damage both parties, but logical opinions whether for or against are very powerful.

It's been mentioned before, there is room for these conferences and more. Let's help Dealers make wise decisions about what can be gained from attending these conferences, the differences between them, and the benefits of both.

Try reading the comments stream as if you knew no-one here, or as someone looking to attend a conference next year. There are some wise heads amongst us, 1st impressions count.

Oh, and Happy Halloween you bunch of crazy, scary, passionate people, you have made my week very entertaining! God Bless you all!

At the end of the day I do appreciate the diplomacy demonstrated in this forum. My point of contention is with how Mr.Roscoe chose to react to the situations in question.

High profile individuals such as Mike Roscoe can either leverage there influence to build relationships or feed their ego. I will say that I am also questioning the position of some on this post on whether it's true diplomacy or political posturing.(Layton Judd) One of the hardest things to do in life is to be honest with yourself.

First Joe do you have any idea what ESPN pays the NFL, I can assure you a hell of a lot more in comparison to what anyone pays to get into the Digital Dealer Conference. In fact if Driving Sales or any other conference wanted to pay the kinda percentages to get in the conference that ESPN pays to get NFL games, I am pretty sure Mike would welcome them with open arms.

Secondly have you ever heard that disclaimer just before every NFL game “Any rebroadcast or retransmission of this program is strictly prohibited” what do you think that is about?

Your NFL analogy is a poor choice, don't think for 5 minutes they don't strictly control that content. Try having a Super Bowl broadcast and charging people admission, oh wait Vegas tried that and… GOT SHUT DOWN!

“You're not a lot rat, stop acting like one” I just don't get that.

Joe the show dates were so close together many dealers had to make a decision which to attend, I don't know about you but I can’t afford to be away from my business for 2 weeks straight and I not gonna fly back and forth to Vegas twice, so there was some competition for audience. Why do you think there were so many posts written on which conference to attend or maybe that was only in the mind of the people writing the posts as well, maybe dealers were not really asking.

In the end I would hardly call this an intellectual challenge, if you're really trying to push the post up to the level of the Colossal Content Control Debate by bringing ESPN to the party, well as I said poor choice and this has nothing to do with content. Its basically Mikes hard work over many years to run a successful conference that many didn’t have the balls to step up and do when he did it. Now you have people wanting in on the action.

I agree with Mike to a point if, people are coming to your conference and not adding value and not there to attend the sessions and contribute to the conversation why should you let them in to disrupt the value other want to get.

It’s his conference and yes Joe he gets to make the decision get in and who doesn’t, right wrong or indifferent. When you get a conference Joe you’ll get to make that decision for your conference too.

The narcissist writes:

"Guys, a dealer wouldn’t allow a competitor’s salesperson on their lot to sell to their customers and potential customers. We don’t allow competitors onto our “lot”…the Digital Dealer Conferences. Not everybody will agree with or like this policy…but who amongst you wants to argue for letting competitor’s salesman onto a dealer’s lot? How about allowing competitor’s ads on the dealer’s website?."

OMG, you are sooo right!... Some one call the NFL and tell them that ESPN is a really bad idea! What was the NFL thinking? PTL! Now I see the light! You need only one voice for your venue, stomp on all media points! Control and power trumps all. Wow, what an eye opener!

Dood, you're in the MEDIA, INFORMATION & CONVENTION business! You're not a lot rat, stop acting like one.

BREAKING NEWS! Your competitors are are not running shows on your dates! So are they really competitors, or, is the battle in your mind mostly?

p.s. you asked "who among us wants to argue"... Someone should have warned you I love an intellectual challenge! Welcome to ol' Uncle Joe's spotlight on this silly little insignificant site

I have attended every one of all three events since their inception and feel that they each have their place in the automotive digital marketing space. Here is my high-level take on each:

Digital Dealer is a trade show with a huge and diverse curriculum for dealers and their staff. The large expo area offers vendors access to their target audiance and an excellent environment for networking.

The Driving Sales Summit offers a unique curriculum that features speakers from outside the industry that offer a different perspective on current trends and topics -- all in an environment that is more focused on content/education and less on vendor participation.

The JDPA Roundtable is in my opinion is the best networking event in the industry today. Where else can you get OEMs, agencies, ad networks, media publishers, dealership service providers and other affiliated companies in one hallway? It has become the event that breeds many of the partnerships and new products that are born at NADA the following quarter.

Each of these events has their place and I strongly encourage participation in any and all of them that may meet your needs. Now if they could just be spread out a bit so I don't have to spend two straight weeks in Las Vegas, that would be wonderful!

This has been the most entertaining and engaging conversations I've read on here. Contrast this to the CRM bake-off where one of the "contestants" didn't respond and the converstion died.

After DDS was over, I RT'd a post by George Nenni that mentioned the wonderful job Mike Roscoe has done growing his conference and what an accomplishment that is. Whie I don't know Mike well, this is a significant accomplishment.

Ultimately, this about creating great content for dealers and both conferences are doing this and moving our industry forward.

I love the sense of humor and the engagement from all.

Well put Cliff and agreed we don't have to see eye to eye on everything but we do need to keep this professional and compete hard.

At the end of the day its a business.

Despite the fact that Mike instructed us not to respond on the blogs to all this nonsense, I've got to weigh in here.

I think I have a unique perspective. I competed hard with Mike longer than most of you have known him. We weren't always nice to each other -- sometimes we talked a little smack, tried to exploit every weakness. But at the end of the day, Mike was always fair – sometimes more fair than I was. And it was a relationship I enjoyed.

As a competitor, Mike invited me to speak at the first Digital Dealer Conference. He even invited me to have dinner with him and his team in Las Vegas a week or so after I turned down a job offer from him.

But I knew the boundaries -- we were competitors. I didn't try to attend his conferences unless I was invited, nor did he try to attend ones we did at Ward's.

The truth is, I would have thrown him or anyone on his team out. Nothing personal – it was business. And guess what? They wouldn’t have complained about it in public – if at all.

Now, I work with Mike. One of you said that I should leave – that if I lie down with dogs I’ll come up with fleas. Believe me, I wouldn’t be here if I thought for one second I was associating with dogs.

Mike has built a first class organization here – and has hired a great team. Do I agree with everything he says or does? No. And he doesn't agree with everything I say or do. But that doesn’t change the fact that Dealer Communications has been and continues to be an organization whose first goal is to provide dealers with the best information possible to help them manage their businesses. And it’s one I’m proud to be part of.

I am glad to see the comments becomming more rational here.

Digital Dealer and Driving Sales each have their place, dealers you have to look at the agendas and the speakers and decide what fits your dealership level and strategy best and go there.

As for all the personal agendas, take those to your own blog this is a place for constructive debate not personal attacks.

Chris, Kevin & Jeff thanks.

Wow this is a lot of drama!! I could only wish we could have a proper conference in Canada. They tried to do one the past April in Niagara Falls but had to pull the plug as it was only vendors and no dealers.

Consider yourself lucky America to have this problem. GO DEALERREFRESH!

@James - that's a unique thought; a dealer conference "multi-pass" would be interesting.

@Dean - While I'm a self-admitted DSES fan-boy, I do want to clarify my comment on DD being a pitch-fest. This comment was made to me, by other dealers & vendors, due to their perception that I simply didn't need to be "pitched."

If the roles were reversed, and I was a vendor with a killer product to pitch, I would probably be fishing in the biggest pond available as well.

Each level of the resources available plays an important role in the dealership life-cycle - the forums, communities and conferences all contribute to each of us...

” I do hope that speakers are not forced to decide between one conference or another as so many dealers are working with tight budgets and might not be able to attend all conferences, but at least can hear from some of these great speakers regardless of which one they attend.”

DSES and DD should work together to provide a discount for folks who are interested in attending/speacking/etc in both.