With all due respect Chris, Wayne is completely right. Today’s technology is far more complex than yesterday's simple website pages. For example, we are about to release the industries first “online negotiation engine”. A system that will actually allow a desk manager or internet manager and the prospect to negotiate the deal totally online. Your college student wouldn't have clue how to build this type of system.

PS: Chris, just think if you had a robust website with a 19% close ratio, dude you would be rich with the leads it would produce for you.

Chris K wrote:

"any College student can build the most robust flash site and one designed for SEO is no more than $500 - you now own the website."

I think this statement is a stretch. You'll get what you pay for, I promise...

Website technologies have become more robust, thus enabling the development of more complex applications. This only means websites will become more functional, thus raising the bar on the shopping experience.

Do you think your college student will want to slave away 50 - 100 hrs building a website that'll compete in tomorrows market for only $500. That's 10 - 5 bucks an hour.

One more thing that I find makes me stand out from my competition: I actually quote a price within the first 2 or 3 emails - whether I talk to them or not. That's why we are #1 in our entire zone.

I think these 3rd party website/lead tool companies are outrageously priced and there are to me we keep getting sold stuff we don't really need like all the back end tools and fluff.

A great website costs not much to build, any College student can build the most robust flash site and one designed for SEO is no more than $500 - you now own the website.

Web hosting with unlimited traffic is about $20 a month. Month to month.

For me it all comes down to what you do with the leads you get. The fanciest website, name your price is all fine and dandy, but consistent follow up, week in, week out for several months is what works for me.

I just get the leads Nissan gives me, use the phone, use constant contact for $19.95 a month - and I close 15% to 20%.

Mitch,
You're wacked.

Joe
(I re-wrote this post 3 times to get it just right!)

Mitch,

So then who are we to listen to more?

a) the vendor
b) the vendor's customers

Based on my trench experience, I'll listen to both, but I'm mostly interested in results, not hype. So how does a vendor show results before a contract is signed? I'm not going to buy on promises alone. I guess I'll have to talk to the vendor's customers.

I understand why you bring up your reasons to be 'wary' of another dealer's testimonial. But to discount them entirely seems extreme. I'm sure there is a balance.

Wouldn't the experienced Internet folk in our industry see through the dealer hype anyway?

Actually I disagree with both of the previous posters who would ask other dealers about a vendor's performance. There are four reasons why another dealer would tell you something works great, and the reason you'd be looking for is unlikely to be the motive behind it... here's the top four reasons why dealers give positive testimonials:

1. They don't know what they're talking about. They had total crap before, and now they have something less crappy and think they found a gem.
2. They got paid or incentivized to say it.
3. They actually do know what they're talking about and the product is legitimately good.
4. They think the product sucks and they want you to suck as well. After all, if you're another dealer, you're the competition.

Let's also keep in mind that the number of testimonials you can dig up from your client base is proportional to how many clients you have. Would you see more value in a company with 20 written testimonials on a 5,000 client base, or a company with 5 written testimonials on a 10 client base?

Fact is I couldn't possibly care less about dealer testimonials.

Wayne,

I agree with your approach in asking vendors for references.

However, I think you (and everyone else) can take the vendor evaluation process a bit further.

The thing that has helped us the most evaluate potential vendors is a simple "questionnaire" we give our vendors. It consists of 20 questions we ask vendors ranging from their basic business contact information to requesting references to asking them knowledge of their competition.

The questionnaire really helps us not only understand price (as we know, it's not always about price), but most importantly, truly gauge our vendor's validity.

Keep in mind, this is not fail safe, but it has helped us narrow the scope of what we need from a vendor and how to incorporate their tools into our process.

Andy Warner

In this day an age of cheap talk and little action, I've learned that the best way to handle any vendor pitch is to ask for some references of customers having success with the product or service and then go call them. You'll really know who you're dealing with then.

Now for something off-topic but constructive:

I used a service called PRWeb.com and had some success with it. I issued my first PR on Monday through PRWeb.com and it's already link #8 on Google for my main keyword. I figure 15-20 PRs and I'll have the first two pages of Google results blanketed with positive news for my primary keywords. This also serves as a hedge against negative links creeping up the search results.

I also noticed that a link to our DealerRater.com page has been climbing our search results too. We're just now starting to push that hard.

Plus isn't BZ like 8-12k per month!!! The water cooler talk is a dealership in WI used them and ended up filling suit to get out of a ridiculous 3 yrs "Bally's Gym" type agreement.

Dave
312-601-5614

Thanks Joe - your endorsement is seriously appreciated!

As for BZ, I have to give my good buddy John McAdams props for staffing such an aggressive sales team. Using Compete in this way is very innovative. However, it is a bit of a slimy sales tactic in my opinion. CS mentioned Alexa, and he is right - I don't know which is worse, Alexa or Compete for this kind of thing. I do think Google Page Rank is a viable resource because it is based on an overall relevance. It does not rely on people installing a toolbar or any of the other methods used. It is also a much simpler thing to understand: you're rated somewhere between a 1 or a 10. Customers use Google, and better Google rankings = more hits.

I had a thread a while back that pointed out the "real" movers and shakers in our industry: www.dealerrefresh.com/my_weblog/2007/10/the-winds-of-ch.html Dealers trying to break the cookie cutter mold.

My Examples are:
Auction Direct USA
www.auctiondirectusa.com/ (hi Eric!)

City Auto
www.cityauto.com/

Lithia Motors
www.L2.com/

And now... Checkered Flag
www.CheckeredFlag.com/
By far, the biggest commitment to internally generated content, coupled with a totally new site design optimized around this concept.

Alex's experiment is all about "high quality, LOCAL content placed onto an optimized site leads to traffic, and traffic leads to sales". Talk about replacing the sunday newspaper!! Alex has so much effort into this he could resell his content to the local paper!!! Hmmm....

Maybe we should have our own TOP10?
Joe

"It may be better if vendors don't know the arsenal of information assembled just within this site alone"

yeah, you wouldn't want them to notice the compete.com link on the left sidebar under "WEB Tools"

Like Joe and Eric, I'd be more than happy to know my competitors were signing up with BZ marketing and overpaying for snake oil (what's the going rate on snake oil anyway... did it go up like regular oil?).

However, the difference is that Joe and Eric work for dealerships, and I'm a service provider. So in truth, the idea that a dealer might buy into this BZ pitch rather than my services simply because BZ is more well-known is quite infuriating.

Maybe all of us on DR should have a contest to see who can create the most preposterous marketing promo chart for this industry. Might be fun to see if anyone can top BZ's debacle.

My guess is that these sales guys are just trying to be as creative as possible.

It may be better if vendors don't know the arsenal of information assembled just within this site alone...

Joe put it nicely by describing the DR crowd; there are those that will make the effort to arm themselves with the knowledge to move ahead & those that think the 'Interweb' is a passing fad.

@jl

Someone that does not give a site or a real name does not justify a response, however I will entertain your remarks.

Yes I have had some funny vendor experiences not quite like was described here but none the less pretty much with this same type of ploy.

Many of the vendors use smoke and mirrors like presented here and use tactics that would not survive if the dealers were educated. Maybe I should of said most vendors I have come in contact with. With that being said it is not all..

In the future though USE YOUR REAL NAME and identify your affiliation to the industry before being caustic. If you don't like my views that is fine I don't have a problem with that, just do it as transparent as I give them.

Paul

what gives people at least it wasn't alexa and pagerank promises.

i don't think the furniture store makes it "funny" either. if the urls are the same, chances are both businesses show up for search queries on either one.

The real question is not whether it is underhanded or good salesmanship, but if Dealer A's traffic would even increase using a BZ site.

Gotta agree with JL on this one. I doubt that there are any vendors whose business plan is to provide arrogance and idiocy to their customers rather than good service and value. That doesn't mean there aren't arrogant and idiotic people out there. Working for a vendor, I've run into a fair amount of them in dealership General Manager positions, but I don't paint all car dealers in that vein. That would be like promoting the old stereotype that car dealers are all slick rip-off artists out to bamboozle their customers and we know that's not true.

Sometimes, it's just an individual rep trying to generate business by doing something that management would stop or correct immediately if they knew about it. IMHO, that's probably the case with this apples-oranges compete.com comparison.

@ Paul Rushing,

"Arrogance and idiocy seem to go hand in hand from most vendors in this niche."

I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess that you were dropped by a vendor as a small child Nearly everything you post is tantamount to hate speech. I don't get it.

Couldn't agree with Joe more that this is the top 1% of the industry, but that industry includes the vendors. Can't speak for everybody, but I'm here to learn from the best so that I can provide the best.

Gitomer says in sales the successful are the servants. This may be a surprise to you, but the top 1% of vendors here care far less about "taking your money" than they do about serving your interests and learning how to help make you more successful. Seems a little trite to label those efforts as arrogant and idiotic.

Some how, I find some joy in seeing "old school" car dealers (aka: Ivory Tower Franchise Squatters) getting fleeced.

IMO, the BZ juggernaut story is a marketing and execution classic and belongs in College marketing courses.

Our DR audience is the upper 1% of our industry and I'll ask you all... "What makes us DR'ers different?" A COMPLETE COMMITMENT TO THE FUTURE OF OUR INDUSTRY... and that IS the Internet.

Darwin's Laws are still in force, the slow get eaten.
Go DR!
Joe

As much as I hate to defend a competitor like BZ -- it isn't completely their fault. The lack of knowledge starts at the top from most manufacturers and filters its way down to the Internet Managers. Vendors do what they can to paint themselves and their products in a positive light. That's sales.

This was an amateur attempt to do so, but I can understand why they would try. Still, you're right, it's definitely sad. We know that many vendors compare apples to oranges. It's fun to see a vendor comparing cars to couches.

Arrogance and idiocy seem to go hand in hand from most vendors in this niche. One day, one day the open source crowd will will level it to the point where this is just a comical reflection.....

And Ralph;

Consider yourself an exception to the ADP criticism for mis-handling BZ. That is, of course, unless you have been brainwashed by the old garde already, too.

From what I have witnessed, it takes massive effort to convince the classic pessimists to admit they are no instant Internet gurus.

So, I wish you all the best. Do at ADP what you did at Courtesy Chevrolet, Ralphy, and you get unanimous Internet King props!

We all know BZ is liable to do anything under the leadership of ADP.

Though I am not well enough qualified to identify this as under-handed, I can tell you succinctly that GM eSummit material is an atrocity. If BZ is getting its guidance from the same stale hierarchy of consultants and professionals as GM, then I assure you it is Cockamanie Bllustih!!!

I'll call you to inform you first-hand of the fools GM made of themselves. I really don't understand the arrogance. They let the same old garde that damned the Internet in 2001, plan and implement the eSummits. WOW!!!

Maybe this BZ sales approach comes from the same old garde. HA...