GREAT TOPIC... As a former employee of Landmark which once owned Dominion Enterprises, which once owned 1/2 of AutoTrader.com and which once owned my former company Trader Publishing. As a Regional Sales Manager for AutoExtra.com from 2004-2005 in its 1st year launch I learned a lot about rate increases and bottom dollar budgets. What sold web advertising back then was market/web trends and demographics. Usually from a company who no one ever heard of and data that was atleast 1-2 years old. Our knowledge of online advertising has dramatically increased since then.

Now I sit on the dealer side where its my budget to control our advertising. I have realized that the reps from AT.com have become savy to our co-op funds and even started a department to adhear to its regulations.

As I sit here scratching my head about AT.com and the Cars.com and the AutoExtra.com's and the Automart.coms and all of these 3rd party websites. I find 1 thing in common, (SEARCH ENGINES). So before stroking that signature on that new fancy price increase they are trying to sell you. Instead invest that money in your own SEO program that directly impacts YOUR website not theirs. We are paying AT.com thousands of dollars a month so that they can build their online presence.

Another fact with Trader is that the AT Publishing reps didnt want to sell the new AutoTrader.com back when it first launched, it was taking away from their print business and risking relationships. So AT.com decided to separate on their own and ever since has been doing its best to move Trader Publishing Print out of the dealerships. Though they will never acknowledge my opinion here I once was a underpaid print and online rep. I saw it happen. They dont care about the dealerships ROI they just want to push the envelope year over year, but most of the problems is on us as a dealer because we get sold on all of these little ad-ons that the reps sell. Just focus on the PRIMARY reason you are listing your inventory online and realize that shoppers / customers are educating themselves on how to get around the gliter the websites put out and get right down to the product.

I forget to post above that the pricing can be good if you can get the blitz pricing. I was able to lock in 3 years of premium listings with 50 spotlights for $2800/month. I thought it was a good price at the time and I have sold 6 vehicles this month of Autotrader as compared to six total leads the month before.

I think a lot of the autotrader value comes in not what the price is, but rather how many other dealerships in your area are using them and how effectively. Examples would be if you are the only MOPAR dealership using trader in 50 miles then it really pays off. However if there are 15 dealerships in 50 using it then you will probably not get good value out of the product. Also make sure that you are putting good descriptions and pictures up. I have found that the more up front and more descriptive you are the better the number and number of quality responses.-Steven Isakson

Trouble in Toyland???? They just axed a large capital building project, guess Cox doesn't want to float the debt in this economy, could impact their $13 billion in annualized revenues.

Dave is right but the bleeding in the print side was created by ATC. All of the online specials they created were designed to kill the print side. If that wasn't the idea, then someone didn't think things through, but that was pretty common.
They also can't stand the thought of running things beyond their 4 walls.

What prompted me to post I guess was I stumbled on the blog and saw a lot of the same assumptions about advertising being made. It was the first chance I have had to try and correct some thinking of some of the posters. For some strange reason I still hate to see you guys not make as much money as you can. I frankly shouldn't give a damn, but I have done this for too long I guess.

Someone needs to write a book on how not to run a business. ATC=Cox Auto Trader or How to take an industry leader and turn it into a solid 5th place.

Cox Autotrader as it's now known recently combined print & online divisions into one corp entity. If any current ATC Reps are wondering why they revamped your compensation so drastically last year or if dealers are wondering why the rates jumped so drastically, just think of all the declining revenue from the print divisions (bleeding severely) now part of the mix, along with the double digit cancellation rates that ATC itself has experienced the past year or so. Someone had to pay and that someone is you, dealers & sales reps.

Former ATP rep: thank you for your comments. You do realize this thread is about Autotrader DOT COM pricing and really has very little to do with what you're typing. Don't get me wrong, it is a good conversation to have, but you're not adding much to either side of this particular argument.

Just out of curiosity, what compelled you to post?

I guess thats my point... when you throw this out "While I can appreciate your attempt at bringing the value - share something an early adopter can get excited about. Call recording? Different 800#'s? Good follow up? ...old news."

I guess my question is are you so busy at looking at the early adopter information that you forget what actually works now?

By the way congratulations on those accomplishments, I meant no disrespect to you or the guys that get it. I just have seen so many that frankly never knew what "it" was. But I digress.

I have been out of the business for nearly 6 months now. I am sure what was, is compeletely different now.

If you guys are doing all of the above mentioned things and maintaining good consistent customer service, then thats great.
In our area, the next dealer I meet that is doing all of that correctly...will be the first.

Maybe I need to move to where more folks get it.

To FAPR.

[...After reading through these posts and the last one, I am sure you guys get something, but it's not advertising...]

You're saying this to a group consisting a people who have a website who just ranked best dealer website (Alex), one of the top dealer destination communities (Jeff) and myself (ADUSA online marketing initiatives) and so many others here that do, in fact, "get" the adv/mktg. element of the business. (The list is long...not slighting anyone by not mentioning you...)

While I can appreciate your attempt at bringing the value - share something an early adopter can get excited about. Call recording? Different 800#'s? Good follow up? ...old news.

Dealers need to know about the new products/services that can help them...IE: Google AdPlanner, new developments in Flash (like Jeff's article) Analytics strategies, social media optimization strategies, etc...

After reading through these posts and the last one, I am sure you guys get something, but it's not advertising.

Eric you write "How can you help us use your platform to improve our business? What can you do to help our dealerships stand out using the tools you have available? What are the little things that can make a difference?"

As I respond to this keep in mind, I no longer work for AT.
So this is just my 2 cents. Discount it if you will.

The dealers I dealt with seem to want one comprehensive program that covers all the bases. Unfortunately, it does not exist.

Many dealers think that by building a webpage they have addressed their internet needs. Again, not the case.
Advertising for your dealerships will reflect a mix of many different places because people go to these places to do their research. So AT is one source, newspapers another (though not quite as uesful), TV, Cable, direct mail (which is tough to use well), ETC.
The most powerful tool in your arsenal will be follow up. You need to track your calls and do a much better job of handling your phone ups. One program is who'scalling.com. The downside is you have to publish an 800 number in your ads, but the upside is you get a comprehensive report showing when the calls were made, the call duration, where they called from within the city and so on. Last time I checked it you had acces to 38+ reports to help track where your calls were coming in from.
The other great feature was call recording. To be able to sit back and listen to your sales staff handle calls then train to the needs of your staff is huge.
Using this program you can see immediately where you money is best spent and make weekly changes to enhance these dollars.

At the end of the day NO ONE ad group will bring in a program that handles all the levels perfectly. That why you get the big bucks to run your dealership.

Do an honest review of the different sources you get your ups from. If you get some from AT great, use it as long as the amount paid is less than the amount made. Pretty simple.
Same goes for any source.
A good review of what you actually spend per vehicle for everything is a good idea. Divide staff costs, lights, phones, rent, everyting by the number of cars on your lot and then roll those suckers out every 30 days.
I had dealers that could throw birthdays for cars they had sitting on their lots prior to using me. Pretty scary.

Autotrader reps, want to add some value? Use this forum to your advantage.

Don't try to re-sell us. Don't try to use your re-tooled sales pitches from your old-school marketing dept.

The people on this forum know the business, know the lingo and simply "get-it."

How can you help us use your platform to improve our business? What can you do to help our dealerships stand out using the tools you have available? What are the little things that can make a difference?

How can you add value rather than simply walking into our stores and saying "Sign here, your rates went up." My rep in NY tries to help with new ideas, suggestions and tries her best to 'sell' new items when needed. [Other regions - not so much...ironically, that's where we spend the most.]

The 'regulars' on this site have provided more than enough constructive, professional feedback & suggestion to keep the product marketing folks at AT busy for a while.
If they don't want to take the time to simply print the discussions here and conduct their own brainstorming sessions, I'd be more than happy to put together a consulting session that would consist of the most direct, on-target feedback - Jeff, Alex, myself, (etc...) would provide all the help needed.

[Sessions start at 100k/day. Your investment would be recovered just by my renewed contracts alone in a couple of months. I'll be sure to stop by to have you sign the paperwork; at the end of the month, as you're trying to sit down for 5 minutes to grab just one bite of your sandwich.]

As someone that worked for Trader publishing for 8 years, it's interesting to "hear" the dealers side of things and to also get a fly on the wall perspective of how you think and feel about advertising.

Respectfully I must also say that many of the viewpoints sound like "typical" dealer rhetoric. Lying to your rep to make him give you a deal? Yikes...but not only not suprising, here is a little tip. We (meaning any person that sells you anything for your dealership) essentially feel that most of you are incapable of telling the truth. So I guess on that front, we all get what we give.

The concept of "they are raising their prices because they can" is also just slightly off the mark.
The goal is to have fewer people paying more for fewer ads, therefore there is less to contend with and more money per "ad".
Flawed business plan, you bet..but I didn't make up the rules, upper management did.

They are in the process of killing the magazine side, frankly the best value out there. Name another industry that has a publication created JUST FOR THEM...and yet most of you refuse to use it. What are you thinking people?

You get to spend about $20.00 an ad for one week, and the average sell through on the ads is less than 4 weeks. IF you know how to buy and have a sales force that is worth a darn. So at the end of the day you drop $80.00 to make $2k? Let's assume you don't make $2k on a car. Plug in your own numbers the math works. If it doesn't, perhaps a class on buying your product would help. During my time with the magazine side, my average dealer spent about $50k a year to make $300k. Guess what, HE STILL COMPLAINED THAT HE WAS PAYING TOO MUCH!!! You guys kill me.

All this time, when you bought a magazine ad, it went online for free.

Now having said all that....I respect my dealers...well most of them. There are a few that if they were hanging off of a cliff and telling the truth would save them, would plummet to their deaths not being able to muster a true statement.

The world as you know it has changed at ATC. They are now in charge of all the publication entities and and have released a majority of the senior staff.

The only folks left are following the plan. Fewer customers, paying more money for fewer ads.

Back in the day we used to pride ourselves on the ROI. We were the only one's in advertising that could show you a REAL one. Now, I have no idea where market penetration is, but its less than last year by far. So every dime you spend now will be less impactful than previous years. It is what it is.

I want to close with a quick story that makes it hard for you guys. I know there are lots of good honest folks out there, but too often the EGO gets in the way.

My dealer only wanted to run 10 ads a week regardless of the fact he had a 50 car lot. The price break was at 12 cars. It's a rule and as such I couldn't break it. A Manager could, but not a lowly sales rep. So this guy tells me he is going to drop. I ask him haow many cars he sells a month from my ads. He replies 15. So he is spending $26.00 for a two week ad or $390.00 every two weeks. $780.00 a month.
I asked what he was making a car. "$1800.00 per"

So he makes $27k a month on an $800.00 investment and is willing to blow that for $52.00 a week.
He looks at his Dad and back at me and says..."Ok we'll keep running." He hadn't even thought of it.

Please guys, do the right math.

Good luck in the car business....you are going to need it.

Autotrader is just like the newspapers were a few years ago. They will keep increasing rates by hitting us with new little tools that are useless. I have tried to sit down with my local same brand dealers to see whether we could all step down to their cheapest package, but some of the other dealers think they are getting more value when paying all this money.

As long as us dealers keep paying and paying their insane fees, they will keep increasing them every year. The only answer at this time would be to create a dealer co-op and join forces to create a replacement of autotrader. Keep in mind that without the dealers autotrader is nothing, because we have the inventory. Take away the inventory and they are cooked.

Just a thought.....maybe we can put some heads together and create a fix to this instead of keep bitching about it...

I've been reading through some old dealerrefresh articles then came across this one. I noticed most comment strings are in the 8 to 30 range, but this one is at 262 comments - holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess this one will make it 263.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hates autotrader.

Lightnup,
I wasn't the one who wrote you up, you might want to send some hostility and anger towards them not me. It's sad you're leaving us, Goodbye.

Okay, this will be my last post to this thread, because it's embarrassing that it keeps getting bumped to the top because of a malignant cancer like TTT, who truly is not worth the time it takes to reply.

No matter what company it is, whether it's ATC or any of your dealerships whose employees post here, to have an employee who publicly demeans, ridicules and undermines the company's management, products and reputation while gleefully taking a paycheck from them is absolutely disgusting and the perfect example of the term lowlife.

Not every decision made by ATC management has been the right one (clearly evidenced by the hiring of someone like TTT). And I have no problems with Alex or David's recent posts which are based on what did or didn't work for them. But TTT intentionally discouraging potential customers from considering her own company's products is a slap in the face to the people she walks through the front door with every morning and to those of us who are out here sincerely interested in helping our dealers maximize their online results through our solutions.

TTT, you apparently think you know who I am but you have no clue. Instead of giving that any more thought, you should be spending your time updating your resume, lying to your next employer about being a valued, loyal employee. What a joke. Only wish I could be there when you are eventually escorted off company property.

That's it. I'm done. Sorry for this thread being bumped to the top one last time by me. It will not happen again.

Lightnup, how could my sources be wrong if they sit 20 feet away from you! But in any event, it's okay, you can continue playing macho man in this forum... it's amusing!

Alex and Frank, ATC works, it might not have worked for your store but overall it works, what I’m talking about here is the used car classifieds section.

The New vehicle components are a joke, the credit center is useless, the bulk of visitors will continue searching for vehicles the old fashion way.
Autotrader's viewership has increased but due to the rerouting and refuneling of these visitors the average used car dealer is receiving less and less activity year after year.
If it wasn't for the "All" radio button, when searching for a car, new car clicks would be non-existent. The idea there is to have consumers look at new car advertising whether they like it or not!

Right on Frank! This is exactly what I did a long time ago. In fact, we were so shocked with how poor the ROI was, we had our ATC rep bring in 2 years worth of reports and worked backwards. Just to give you an idea of how bad it was: two weeks after we were done our ATC rep quit to come sell cars for us - lol. This was back in 2005.

When this article was started (November of 2007) I was in the tail-end of a 3 month trial with ATC. At the time, we had two new GM's who swore we had to be there, so we gave it another shot. We're not paying for AutoTrader.com anymore. We have our Toyota store on because it is free through the Toyota regional ad agency. Because of this account I still get visits and calls from ATC. I have to say, our two newest ATC reps are incredibly nice and accommodating. At the end of the day it isn't the reps who make a ROI - it is the product, and it needs to change.

Wow you two are really in some kind of pissing match, if it was not for this post I am not sure what you two would do?

Anyway my thoughts regarding Autotrader.com. I like many others thought you needed Auto trader; I have to admit it is nice to afford the luxury of having them if you have money to burn. I checked my ROI for two years and what I spent with AT, Found it did not seem like a very good business decision to keep them. I have heard all the arguments from the reps as I have had three come by to try and get me to resign. Since leaving auto trader I have taken those dollars and used them to create more relevant traffic for my store. Some think I am crazy for not using them but AT is not our only source for web traffic. If you take a real serious look at what AT brings to the table you might also decide to move on without them.

If you stand back and take a real serious look at AT you will see that we pay to have our vehicles posted on Autotrader.com. On each search page there are banners everywhere doing everything but directing eyes to your vehicles, When eyes do land on your page what do they see? Your vehicle right, but what other advertising is on that page that you paid for? I believe if I paid for that page it should be mine, for my vehicle, my web address, my credit link. No other banners at all, no other links, no other credit advertisements period. Auto trader has it made because for every vehicle on the site that is another number, for every number there is revenue. I think it is great they make money and that is my goal also, but I am not spending my budget with someone who lets others advertise on my pages.(I just pulled up a at page and counted 14 links for other advertisers) WOW!!! How much revenue do the recieve from each and every page, might be they should pay the dealers so they have pages for everyone else to advertise on. When they stop that practice then they will have earned my business back, but they will have to cut the cost by more than half. It seems they think Dealerships cannot do business without them, I assure you that you can increase your business without them.

Just my opinion

ATC should've pushed into the new car sector SERIOUISLY three years ago. Now playing "catch up" in deciding to promote new car sector in the midst of the worst recession in 30 yrs. Is it a good idea ?, yes, will it be effective? no, it's tantamount to pi$$ing into the wind.

Autotrader is like a second grader who keeps raising their hand but doesn't know the answer when called upon. Ready, Fire, Aim.

TTT provided this myopic, cockeyed marketing analysis: "The hundreds of millions they are about to spend on this [new car] campaign is a terrible waste of money and couldn't come in a worst time. New car business is horrible right now. This money is better spent modernizing the website and optimizing the search quality."

TTT, the company that provides your paycheck is launching a huge consumer-centric advertising campaign aimed at driving more shoppers to dealers' new car inventories at the very time when new car business is horrible. And you have a problem with that? Perhaps you'd rather wait until new car sales are at record highs and THEN offer to help our dealers sell more new cars...when they don't need the help? I hope you don't aspire to management or we're all in trouble.(And SOS is right, ATC's new car traffic has always been much smaller than used car traffic...that's why they are launching a new car campaign. DUH.)

TTT also wrote: "I heard lighten up got written up!"

Didn't happen. Your sources suck. Instead of chasing rumors, take a marketing class. Your employer, whom you enjoy dissing so much, will probably even pay for it....unless they discover who you are first.

Frank, the sad fact is that their attitude is so cavalier that they will actually expect you to come beggin back to them within a 3 to 6 month period. Some dealers would in the past and come to a compromise on pricing but so many dealers are tired of the game that they've written off autotrader and have found pastures just as green for less ad spend elsewhere. The 800lb gorilla has been on a diet the past year and is now down to about 250 lbs.

Looks like might have been a good idea to cancel autotrader

They've come to market way late in trying to capture revenue from dealers on new car advertising. Between the manuf's initiatives with display advertising on search engines and many other successful venues dealers have been utilizing, ATC has been asleep at the wheel and missed the boat on this one almost entirely. If dealers only knew how very small in comparison ATC's new car searches are in relation to used car searches would they be extremely skeptical on spending precious ad dollars going after new car customers with Autotrader.com. I'm sure they're too busy patting each other on the back in Atlanta to even realize this or even admit it. Purple mustaches from all the kool-aid I guess.

The hundreds of millions they are about to spend on this campaign is a terrible waste of money and couldn't come in a worst time. New car business is horrible right now. This money is better spent modernizing the website and optimizing the search quality.