Brian H.,
You may want to re-read Jeff K's. initial post. The topic here is how to reply to a "nickle-dime grinder" who's interested in a unit that is in high demand and in very short supply.

I sense by the intensity of your reply that sales for your platform are... less than you expected. May I suggest that you hire a sales force to sell your "no sales rep needed" platform (now that's funny!).

Joe

Internet 101...

Purpose of the email? Get the phone call.

Purpose of the phone call? Set the appointment.

You know the next step... And of course to build rapport throughout this process.

Jeff, your customer wrote that you could contact him through his account or cell. Just me, I would have tried to communicate soley through phone from there on out.

Only in the event the customer specifically requests to be contacted via email, would I then evaluate the situation on whether to 'show my hand'. Vehicle- rare or common, Distance- near or far, Email address- freebie (yahoo, hotmail, ect) or tied to a paid home/business account.

Saturday I sold a new Tahoe to a GM BuyPower customer that I used this strategy with that lived 3 Chevy dealerships inbetween and 40 miles away. Once on the phone and hearing his distress about pricing I knew this was the one opportunity to lay it down.

He drove in at noon and left at 2pm in his new Tahoe. Pricing above invoice.

How did I do?

Jeff, you can't blame a customer for doing something you didn't tell him he couldn't do... Through what medium did this customer come to submit the lead? What was the brand / experience / why buy from us / how we do business message that the consumer received prior to submitting what you received?

Is it the consumer's fault if he merely followed the technological bouncing ball he was provided, yet that wasn't the behavior that you wanted ("Hi! I'm online! Here's all my contact info! Can you please contact me so that I can arrange to come in to your dealership!)"? Is that really what you are expecting or is it only what you want? Would you do that if you were a consumer?

Is an online consumer under some sort of obligation to come in and go through a traditional sales process? Aren't most online consumers trying to engage in a different car buying process?

But I'm not here to criticise Jeff or anyone else. I do understand where the frustration of expended effort with no results comes from. Since this is a learning forum this would be my response...

Joe,

I will happily provide you with a price on the vehicle you have requested, but need to make sure I understand several facets of your vehicle buying decision first. I need this so that the information I provide you is 100% accurate and is appropriate to your purpose and needs.

Specifically, what is your estimated timeframe for making a purchase? At the moment the vehicle you have requested is brand new, in extremely short supply and is selling for full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). As with all recently released vehicles, that never lasts forever so your estimated timing here is critical.

Will you be financing (whether by loan or lease) your purchase?

Do you have a trade in? If so what is it? Do you owe anything against it? Have you had a professional appraisal and equity analysis performed already?

Are you familiar with our dealership's customers for life program and what that could mean to you?

Are you familiar with our dealership's Internet customer perks program available shoud you come in for a free purchase consultation?

Have you owned a Mercedes-Benz vehicle before?

Do you have any special uses for the vehicle that you would like to make us aware of? We never push, but if asked we are all trained to the highest level on the various options available on our vehicles. Frequently we get questions and asked for opinions as to how certain options are used, which retain their value best, which repeat customers rave about and which they don't.

Are you absolutely fixed on every option that you have requested? Expanding our search in terms of your flexibility will increase the range of vehicles that are likely to be available for you to consider?

And here is a thought that I always feel remiss if I do not ask... The purchase phase of your Mercedes experience is likely drawing to an end. After your purchase, you will presumably own you vehicle for a period of years. Have you thought about how your choice in dealership for your vehicle purchase can continue to be of benefit through your ownership phase. At Mercedes-Benz of Hagerstown, we have special programs to review with you that are only available to those who have purchased from our dealership. We not only wany you to be comfortable with your purchase decision, but with your entire ownership experience and have a number of programs to make sure that we deliver. Are you familiar with them?

Lastly, we also make available a number of what I call "Peace of Mind" services to make your ownership of your new Mercedes everything that you want it to be. Extended Service Contracts, Prepaid Maintenance, GAP protection, Credit, Accident and Life insurance are the ones our consumers seem to prefer.

I know this is a lot, which is why I would like to suggest an in-dealership visit to review all of your purchase considerations, make sure I understand them completely and so I can give you all of the answers you are going to need. Until I have those answers, I don't feel it would be responsible of me to quote you anything other than MSRP. I also know I can usually do a little bit better for you if you are here and my manager sees that you are ready to buy.

If that is comfortable, please email me a few times when you would be available to come in for the consultation and call me in advance to make sure you have everything with you that you will need.

My personal best,

Jeff

Then go back and figure out how to change your technology (Internet lead submission forms) to give you a different result.

Don't have powerful marketing messages like the above to communicate to your consumers around:

1) Why Buy From Us?
2) Why Come In?
3) Buy here, service here perks?

Whose fault is that?

I guarantee you that this person will single you out from the pack of non-responses and "here's your price" responses they do receive.

People buy from people they like. They buy emotionally and justify their decisions intellectually. If this consumers comes back just asking for price again, quote them MSRP and let them go. They suck as a consumer, just as they did in the days before the Internet.

Consumers hide behind the Internet, data and technology because they are defending themselves against salespeople who want to push them in to things they don't want to do. People like to buy, but not be sold. You stir emotions when you adjust EVERYTHING you do to nurture, understand and listen. The only person who should close a consumer is the consumer. You are just a tour guide.

The Internet is a different medium, but basic human and sales psychology still applies.

My company has the first shopping cart based ecommerce system for dealers to add on to their website. The same principle applies there. The need to transfer this human and sales phychology for maximum effectiveness is why our workflow and screens deliver a dealer specific brand message designed to promote comfort, nurture and educate. If you want the emphasis in your technology and process to not be on price, it is your responsibility to make sure it happens. There is no point lamenting when consumers do what you didn't tell them they couldn't do.

Good selling.

Hi,

I just ran into a customer like this last week. He wants a 2008 FJ Cruiser; a VERY hot vehicle. We went back and forth on options and I had to add several accessories to suit his needs. The MSRP for the vehicle is $32949.

Then I get the e-mail..."what do you think is a FAIR price for the vehicle?"

Here is the reply I sent him:

Hi John Doe,

Thank you for your reply.

For a fair price for the FJ Cruiser, Kelly Blue Book defines a fair markup for new vehicles at between 6-8%.

We would pay a realtor 5.4% to sell a home, and we tip a waiter 15-20%. Obviously, a new FJ Cruiser is a lot less than a house, and considerably more than a meal, so the great news is that we are right in line with what is considered to be a fair markup for a brand new FJ Cruiser.

We are happy to share with you all of the pricing information for the FJ Cruiser when you come in to reserve your new FJ.

I look forward to seeing you soon.

Teresa
~End Quote~

I too see no reason to whore out Hot vehicles just so someone can tell all their friends that they bent me over my desk and got a great deal. Then I have to give all of the referrals they send a similar deal. Especially when he had already worked with two other Toyota dealers in town and they could not find him a suitable FJ. This would be a custom order; and he just chirps about a discount.

There are 2 kinds of cars.

#1). Too much Supply (buyers market)
#2). Not Enough Supply (sellers market)

Jeff,
You're in class #2, BUT, you gotta hide your pride! I'd venture to bet that many of the other sellers are thinking like you are and will "opt out" of the bidding war.

IMO, When you got a #2 car, you go "old school" on the shopper. Meet his demands with a warm professional inviting response (which you're good at), but, take charge with YOUR DEMANDS.

I'll give it a go...

=========================

Dear John Doe,

Clearly you've been doing your due diligence. As you well know, this exciting new C350 is in limited supply and they'll take months to order. Requests are coming in & If you're interested in purchasing one soon, we should talk over the phone ASAP.

The new C350 we have in inventory is truely a sight to see. The options package has nearly everything you're interested in and the color complements the Mercedes owner as well. Should you stop in for a visit, you'll see this C350 has people circling around it all day!

Mr Doe, I am eager to sell you this exciting new Mercedes, but, because it's so unique and demand is so high, we'll only take offers in person.

I hope you appreciate my honesty, I hope to earn your business soon!

Warmest Regards,
Jeff K.

======================

How'd I do?
Joe

There are those who enjoy the shopping and negotiating game and we run into them in every business, it is actually fun if you make the time for it. Every dollar saved is 10 dollars earned is an old Chinese saying.

Having a competitive edge means possessing an advantage over your competition. This does not take the luck of the Irish, but rather some solid strategic planning. Before you can accurately identify your competition, it's crucial to first define and analyze your target market. What are you selling and to whom?

Make a list of those companies trying to do the same. What are their strengths and weaknesses? What are their strategies and goals? How do they draw in customers? What makes them stand out from the rest?

If you don't have this vital information, what are we doing in business? We shouldn't live in fear of our competition, we must find out who they are and what makes them attractive to their clients, why do people shop with them? Assessing competitors openly and honestly will play a key role in helping develop a competitive edge.

If we only compete on price than we better be the low cost dealer otherwise we lose.

A winning company is not successful by accident, though often it may seem that way. A closer look usually reveals that most have sized up their target markets and zeroed in on a unique approach to meet their customers' needs, values and expectations.

Through important considerations like location, product, services and product features, they have somehow found a fresh spin, a new way to offer service that many clients will pay more for the quality and piece of mind. Most people still like to work with a professional organization. The clients only looking for the lowest price you may not want; leave them to the bottom feeders.

HI Jeff,

I get this kind of request often. Leads have been off by 30% this month so not many lately.

If I have what the client needs instock or coming. I will sned them a price discounted by $500 as long as they have confirmed the color and options as your client did in the response emails.

I have found that as long as you have exactly what they are looking for and you can provide the service they are asking for in a timely manner, often times you can earn the business simply because you have provided quick service and a price. It may be the only price quote they receive and the only response.
I too prefer not getting in to a bidding war and certainly understand your thought process on that subject.
I also understand my boss wants every deal he can get right now.

When I was an ISM, I would check the local competitors to see what they had in stock before proceeding. For hot vehicles (there weren't many Ford, Lincoln, Mercs that were "hot", but there were a few from time to time), if I had it and they didn't, I would stand firm. If the competition had one, too, my response was very close to yours.

"Hi John Doe, We do have a brand new Edge in stock that matches your specs exactly. Currently, we are not discounting them, as they are selling very well without discounts. If you have a trade in, I can still save you money overall. We generally give more than the competition, so it would be worth your while to stop by and see me. Will you be able to stop by this afternoon, or will Saturday morning be better?"

We give enough discounts on regular vehicles. When it's a hot one, why give it away?

I usually do not comment on blog posts but I found this quite interesting, so here goes. Thanks! Regards, P.

fantastic breakdown, very valuable. I'm going through the process of interviewing SEO/site vendors and these are both true and perfect questions I've been asking. Now I'd just like to know, who are the best ones to use???

Great post although I have to disagree with the JD's original posting.

Myth #1: The more indexed pages does help with your SEO efforts as this is part of Google's algorithms. How big of a factor it is only Google knows.

To continue on this point. I believe it is extremely important that your website indexes your inventory pages individually not only for having more content, but also having FRESH CONTENT! Google's algorithms also looks at how often a website is updated.

That said, you add these two factors up and indexing your inventory is of great value.

I do agree that it will not help much with getting direct clicks to your site, eventhough I do see clicks with inventory specific searches, I think this is a very small portion of searchers.

Myth #2: Good point, but you are forgetting that you have more then just a used Camry on your lot. You have to add all searches for vehicles in your market that you have in your inventory to really make a valid comparison.

Myth #3: Never heard that before,obviously BS, so I have to agree.

Myth #4: Although lots of improvements have and will be made to make FLASH more search engine friendly, take a look at the big ecommerce websites and see whether they use FLASH. Nope that;s right, they don't.

My advice for dealers and website developers: Take a look at what the leads in the ecommerce market are doing. I am not talking about the car industry only. Look at how a website like Target.com tries to complete a sale and what kind of technologies they use. These companies spend millions on their design with attention to detail.

Target for example makes the steps to purchasing an item very clear and highlights the next step in light yellow, so the customer knows what to do next. These companies improve, because they have very good tracking tools on abandonment rates and many more things that allow them to improve both visitors and conversion.

Regarding the big sell in the market right now to get on the Video SEO. Remember, that having your inventory on Youtube does get you exposure, but does not get you the leads you want. Really the videos need to be on your website and hosted on your website, not embedded from Youtube or a third party provider. It is the same as some website vendors using a third party tool to display inventory on their dealers websites, which in return these pages are indexed under the third party tool's website and not the dealer website.

So, in short: Increase traffic to your site by using basic SEO techniques. Best way to do this is to have incoming links with keywords as the tag text coming from related websites.

great stuff, it always amazes me how many dealerships overlook a focus on organic search engine optimization. In my personal opinion it's best to stay away from flash, that said I do agree with you in that having a flash site isn't instant death, there are a lot of things we can do to optimize a flash website for a dealership.

I agree with a large amount of what you said, but like everyone else have some comments:

Myth #1/#2 -

Most of what you said was true, but when you used the example:

used toyota camry minneapolis" - 28
"toyota minneapolis" - 32,430

as the reasoning for being relevant for the major terms, I think you missed the boat. Although I of course want to be ranked high for "toyota minneapolis", I don't know what those searchers are looking for. It could be car (insert year and model), could be truck (insert year and model), could be SUV, service, parts, bodyshop, racing info, hats, t-shirts, etc. The point is those generic searches are definitely something that I don't want to be invisible on, but I definitely don't want to miss 28 people who did targeted searches for a specific car that I may have many in stock. As searches get more specific the conversion rates go up, and fewer competitors are showing up in the listings. And if I have a website that would deep-link directly to my used camrys then that would be a bonus too.

And I hope that vendors suggesting that even VIN's can be read are not saying that is how consumers would search, but rather that the spiders are reading specific content.

Myth#4

Most vendors have created their platforms in outdated technology and flash platforms try to stuff keywords at the bottom or around the sides, but the flash itself is not read.

BUT in 2007 Adobe released Flash 9 which allows for everything to be developed in text and rendered to the end user in Flash. This allows for spiders and bots to read the text version and consumer to get a professional experience. www.saford.com is a great example.

Joe,
our product mix/pricing seems to be pretty good. our used cars have a 33 day turnover - the new about double that. But thats well outside my area of responsibility.

In our state we are not allowed advertise ANY special pricing (internet only prices, employee prices, military discounts, rebates for returning chrysler customers, etc). Plus, whatever price we put on a website, the floor has to divulge and offer to every single customer who walks in. So my hands are tied in this regard - the GSM and used car manager call those shots.

I manage all the internet marketing, but I don't sell or set appointmets. Everything goes to the floor. So from that perspective, it's certainly a team effort here. Plus, my family owns the dealership, so I don't get too much flak

Internet sales is not a problem here - it's gone for non-existant to over 50% of our business in 12 months (new and used)

Are you working for an independent?
that would be a whole other story then, as used cars sales on the net are MUCH more inventory driven then new cars! Whereas I can generate tons of leads from keywords like 'dodge' or 'jeep', I doubt that an independant would enjoy the same success. You certainly have a much tougher road to travel... and hence long tail might just prove to be your bread and butter. i never thought of it from that perspetive.

p.s. how you anyone leave a post without showing your URL?

How can you NOT leave your URL on a site like this one? Talk abut authority!

SEO has low/poor ROI if you are the only palyer in your organization staying up till 3 am thinking of how to sell more cars! hahaha...

I had much better luck. I had a buy in from the top to use the Net as a cheap advertising tool. We mark down aged and offer up loss leaders to motivate shoppers (ala "old school").

Results?
I had SEO wired for lots of excellent long tail SERPs and it all worked! 20% of all sales were greater than 1 hours drive. Now that's new business and that's ROI!

Summary:
What good is all the countless marketing hours if your merchandise ain't positioned right?!!?

Killer Internet Marketing can only succeed with a TEAM EFFORT.

just my $0.02...
Joe

>PPC skills simply do not convert over to SEM

OOPS - typo
PPC skills simply do not convert over to "SEO"

J.D., you are spot on.

>Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary.

A local comeptitor had a new site built.. with only 5 indexed pages, it sat at the top of google nationwide for 'dodge dealer' for many many months. it only started to slip when googlebot started finding all of it's 'spider food' spammy SEO pages

> Myth #2: People search for individual cars or by VIN

I die when I here his claim. who in the WORLD would do this? I can't imagine how you could search for a VIN for a car you don't yet know of!

>Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO

I personaly feel anyone who makes this claim is outright dishonest trying to market themselves to the ignorant. I did both SEO and SEM, for my own sites as well as others, for years before getting into the car business. I have the google cert. PPC skills simply do not convert over to SEM. Yes, PPC campaigns are great for insite into what keywords to optimize for. but thats it.

>Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized

they certainly can. And who says a flash SITE needs to only be 1 page? even so, 1 page sites can still do very well in SERPs.

We are neck deep in dishonest vendors playing on the general ignorance of most dealers.

I used to spend a TON of time on SEO... I no longer think it's worth as much effort as I once did.
Why?
1) you can just buy the top spot and get tons of traffic. Not as challenging, but pretty darn easy. I really don't feel the need to bend over to pick up a dime when there are so many dollars just laying on the table.
2) By far the largest source of traffic and leads I get are are from keywords I could never compete with on the SEO side. examples: "dodge", "chrysler".

SEO is free traffic - and free is great. But it will never come close to good SEM campaigns. Not a day goes buy were I don't think or do something regarding SEO. But I no longer let it occupy so darn much of my time and brain cycles - no more staying up to 3 am

> much rather rank for "Buy a Used Chevy in (city name)" any day over "Buy a Chevy". The leads generated in the first example are targeted leads to my market area vs leads generated way out of my market area. I rather have 1 lead in my market for a specific inventory Item than 30 from all over the US for a generic term.

===========================

Do you actually work at a dealership (ie - get paid for SALES) and use this tactic?

I'll take the 1st or second spot for just 'chevrolet' and make the owner of my dealership an extra $1million in profit a year! Well, if we were still a chevy dealer

Go only for the long tail search, and you will starve.
Plain and simple.

This is not typical IM. Typical adsense or affiliate strategies used by self employed internet marketers on a shoestring budget simply do not work in this market (forget the fact that 99% of those marketers are lucky to even make $100 a month). Selling only a few cars to internet shoppers a month simply is not an option. I need to generate over 100k of profit a month to justify my existance (and we're a small dealership, no more then 8 sales people total, and zero dedicated internet sales people). To do this, I need a site that converts, and lots of traffic to it.

If you only want searchers in your city, just use geo targeting - the VAST VAST majority of searchers don't even qualify their searches with city names! adwords ad impressions will verify this in heartbeat. There is no arguing the real stats.

I'd rather have 100 people a day from my market shopping for a 'dodge', then the 1 person shopping for "new white dodge caliber in BFE'. Both types of shoppers are equally likely to generate a lead or visit us. Set-up a free analytics account at google and anyone can verify this for themself.

Now, I can get easily get several hundred people a day to our site using geo-targeting and generic keywords like 'dodge', or I can take a month to get that traffic using long tail searches.

The nuances of car shopping and sales are nothing like selling digital cameras or e-books online

long tail search is mostly a way to buy clicks for cheap, as well as game the SE's and get higher SERPS.
Dealers don't need to do this. We don't need to try to get a trickle of traffic for pennies a click. I could pay up to $75 PER click before it becomes a losing proposition! Granted, the owner would probably shoot me if i did this

To anyone who actually works at a dealership and is just getting started in SEM/ppc, do yourself a favor and just use a few generic search phrases at first, and target your ads to only display for people within 20 miles of your zip. Keep tweaking your ads to get your CTR up, and you'll see results. This is the low hanging fruit, yet it could nearly double the total sales of the 'average' franchise dealer within a couple months.

In the automotive industry, so few people will type in "buy a used chevy in san diego". "San Diego Chevy" or "chevrolet san diego" get literally tens of thousands more searchers than the longer tail searches, and these aren't just research searches. These are buyers. Conversions are much, much lower, but like with the example above, would you rather have 0.1% of 32,000 people looking for "Toyota Minneapolis" or 10% of 28 people looking for "used camry in minneapolis"?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I was over targeted in my example above your "short tail" example is still more targeted than mine. If I can rank for used "Used Camry in (city name)" I better be ranking well for "Toyota (City Name)".

Adwords ranking and SEO are completely different animals.

Adwords position is about quality score. I can take a non indexed page and have it rank well for an Adwords campaign due to quality score.

Dominating organic searches is all SEO and the desired outcome for organic searches is not to just have #1 in the SERP but #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 that is the "Holy Grail" this will never be accomplished with a well optimized 20 page site. The only way to achieve this is with multiple sites and multiple pages.

The only way Adwords and SEO intertwine is in keyword targeting. But just because you can get a good position in an Adwords Campaign does not mean you can get a good position in natural SERPs. If you have a good natural position there is no need for Adwords.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I agree, in affiliate marketing, the long tail is everything. This is because you're targeting the people who are further down in the funnel, not just doing research. For affiliate marketing, it is so much more cost effective to do AdWords for the long tail where conversions are high.

In the automotive industry, so few people will type in "buy a used chevy in san diego". "San Diego Chevy" or "chevrolet san diego" get literally tens of thousands more searchers than the longer tail searches, and these aren't just research searches. These are buyers. Conversions are much, much lower, but like with the example above, would you rather have 0.1% of 32,000 people looking for "Toyota Minneapolis" or 10% of 28 people looking for "used camry in minneapolis"?

Nobody is saying not to do the long tail. I'm saying the long tail is something you get after you get the high volume local searches that the bulk of buyers are typing.

I have affiliate pages, just like you. My affiliate strategy is the exact opposite of my automotive strategy because the stakes are higher in automotive. In affiliate marketing, it takes 10 sales to cover my AdWords costs, which I usually hit at 20% or 30% of my budget. The rest is gravy. In automotive, whether you spend $300 a month or $1500, 1 sale should cover the costs. It isn't cost effective to go after the long tail alone. You have to go for the bulk primarily, especially with optimization. I know dealers who have seen 20% plus increase MoM and YoY once they made it above the fold on page 1 for major local search terms.

One final piece of advice. Apply what you know about affiliates, but remember, it's a numbers game. One of my old dealers wanted to be #1 for "Oklahoma City Lincoln Dealers". I got them there, and as a result, sales increased a lot. As a result for placing in that search term, we also made the front page for "Lincoln Dealers" nationally. We did get several leads from out of state. In 1 month, they sold two lincolns to New York, 1 in Arizona, 1 in Oregon, and several to the border states. Getting 1 highly targeted, local lead will not sell you more cars than 30 leads from out of state. Trust me. People aren't stupid. They know where the lead is going. If they send in a lead from out of state, they know there are obstacles. Having your team ready to handle these situations will help you sell more cars than with the single targeted lead.

Summary:
You'll be preaching the "Long Tail Gospel" in less than 18 months.

Joe Pistell
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From my affiliate marketing experience dominating SERP's with longtail keywords is the "Holy Grail" that is where the targeted buyer comes from.

I much rather rank for "Buy a Used Chevy in (city name)" any day over "Buy a Chevy". The leads generated in the first example are targeted leads to my market area vs leads generated way out of my market area. I rather have 1 lead in my market for a specific inventory Item than 30 from all over the US for a generic term.

Paul

Longtail Keywords and Generating Leads

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The entry level SEO knowledge to sell affiliate products online is knowing to target the longtail.  Generally trying to rank for generic keywords does n...

David-
I know what you mean. I wasn't trying to be rude. It's tough - so many come here looking for clients. The reason I go to this site more often than my own sometimes is because self-promotion is a no-no here. It is more objective and helps me to keep a finger on the pulse of the industry through the people who truly run it (even though our bosses don't know it sometimes).

I cross paths with many websites and want to say "we can do it better" but I always bite my tongue. It's tough, but it keeps the conversations more real.

J.D.

Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary.
I agree it is a Myth. I was pointing out from our experience that a 4 page site can out rank a much larger site. It is the content that is a factor. Which ties into your Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized. You can have all the relevant content and 1,000 page flash site, and the search engines wouldn't know it from a 1 page flash site. The technical part about it is that the huge flash site typically sits within 1 HTML page. So dealers with HUGE impressive flash sites typically have 1 HTML page to optimize (if allowed by the vendor). Thus making it very difficult to rank highly on Organic searches.

Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO
I agree with you in that it makes absolutely no difference to organic marketing as now pointed out by Google. It is geared towards the PPC. I would trust that someone with these Certs has enough experience with Adwords and AdSense and would know more than someone without one. I agree it is used today more for marketing purposes than it should be.

What you call "self promotion" is merely my experiences and opinions and from what I know to work and not work. I have been in the web development/SEO industry for 12 years and so I only speak and demonstrate from exprience. Sorry for any self promotion.

Thanks for the topic J.D.